Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

655321 · 2011-03-11 06:27:39

Hi, its time for me to upgrade my laptop, I want to buy a new laptop that can run Arch Flawlessly, my requirements are pretty specific:

- 13.3 inch
- Good processor (Could be anything but those striped processors i.e. celeron and the like)
- Dedicated graphics (Here I dont know If I should get nvidia or ATI, nvidia has better linux support in my opinion, I have heards lots of things saying that ATI drivers suck but I dont know, if you have some info let me know or post link)
- Elegant
- Hard drive doesn't matter much (128 gb and up is fine)
- Bluetooth, wireless, etc etc

With those requierements in mind I found this 2 sony laptops, they look awesome on paper but I wanted to know if they will give some kind of problems regarding hardware

First one, sony vaio S series VPCS13SGX
Second one: sony vaio New S series

Differences between the 2 are mainly the video card and hdd/memory, the second one is also lighter and thiner.

Will any of those work with arch, personally I would prefer the second one, but like I said I dont know about the compatibility, wireless and bluetooth is also a concern to me since I have had laptops with bluetooth and wireless unable to detect on linux.

Any help will be greatly appreciated

Last edited by 655321 (2011-03-11 08:25:42)

nTia89 · 2011-03-11 11:04:12

my suggest is to avoid pc with realtek network controllers

all except it is ok

litemotiv · 2011-03-11 12:56:24

Be sure that the backlight will work on linux, Sony has a habit of intentionally messing up their DSDT's so that only Windows can read them without problems. If you are going to need custom DSDT's you're in a lot of dung. Also check whether they haven't disabled Intel-VT (hardware virtualization) in the bios, since they also have a knack for doing that on all but their 'top of the line' business models.

alexcriss · 2011-03-11 13:29:46

Having had a Sony VPCS11, which should be the same as your first option, I have to say that the nvidia card proved to be problematic in the beginning (due to DSDT, as litemotiv said) Also the internal mic didn't work, due to the quite new Realtek audio chip. Everything should work with the latest nvidia driver, even though I had occasional problems with hibernate. Audio was fixed in 2.6.36. Wireless worked out of the box with the iwlagn driver.

I have ordered a Vaio SB, which is your second option, hoping to move from the proprietary nvidia (can't stand no KMS, no Randr 1.2) driver to the open intel/ati drivers for the HD3000 (from Sandy Bridge) integrated GPU and the Radeon 6470. I am still waiting shipment, so I can't pass judgment on the new Vaio. I hope everything works ok (even though I expect audio problems, while I hope that network goes fine, that could be a major problem otherwise).

Wireless should be Intel and work with the iwlagn driver.

Regarding Intel-VT, I can confirm that you *can* enable it in the VPCS11 BIOS.

If you care to wait one or two weeks, I should have my new Vaio. I will report here what works and what doesn't.
Hope this helps

EDIT: Graphic on the new Vaio is supposed to work, since the Web button for quick Web access boots into a linux system (AFAIK)

Last edited by alexcriss (2011-03-11 13:34:03)

eldragon · 2011-03-11 14:20:42

i wouldnt buy a laptop from sony, too propietary for linux :S

Inxsible · 2011-03-11 15:05:06

If buying a Sony is not a criteria, then might I suggest a Thinkpad -- lots of threads with info on how to set up everything in case you need help.

The only problem is that the smallest Thinkpad (an actual ThinkPad -- none of those Edge etc bullshit) in T-series is 14.1 inch screen. The other size in T series is 15.6

and the X series has 11.1 and 12.1 -- but those tend to be a bit expensive. W series are 15.6 and 17.1

ngoonee · 2011-03-11 15:24:29

Inxsible wrote:

If buying a Sony is not a criteria, then might I suggest a Thinkpad -- lots of threads with info on how to set up everything in case you need help.
The only problem is that the smallest Thinkpad (an actual ThinkPad -- none of those Edge etc bullshit) in T-series is 14.1 inch screen. The other size in T series is 15.6
and the X series has 11.1 and 12.1 -- but those tend to be a bit expensive. W series are 15.6 and 17.1

Didn't I just see you post almost the same advise somewhere else? Quite the Thinkpad salesman, are we .

I'd post advise myself but seeing as I'm from another part of the world, the brands etc. are very different.

Inxsible · 2011-03-11 15:41:55

ngoonee wrote:

Inxsible wrote:
If buying a Sony is not a criteria, then might I suggest a Thinkpad -- lots of threads with info on how to set up everything in case you need help.
The only problem is that the smallest Thinkpad (an actual ThinkPad -- none of those Edge etc bullshit) in T-series is 14.1 inch screen. The other size in T series is 15.6
and the X series has 11.1 and 12.1 -- but those tend to be a bit expensive. W series are 15.6 and 17.1
Didn't I just see you post almost the same advise somewhere else? Quite the Thinkpad salesman, are we .
I'd post advise myself but seeing as I'm from another part of the world, the brands etc. are very different.

Yes !! Misfit and me

ANOKNUSA · 2011-03-11 16:37:38

litemotiv wrote:

Be sure that the backlight will work on linux, Sony has a habit of intentionally messing up their DSDT's so that only Windows can read them without problems. If you are going to need custom DSDT's you're in a lot of dung.

I'm in the middle of trying to stick a fixed DSDT into a custom kernel to get my Toshiba working properly; Google "toshiba laptop linux" and marvel at the collective douchebaggery of Toshiba and MS, and learn from my mistake. This is a real pain and, problem is, the solution (custom kernel) invokes the problem itself (malfunctioning cooling fan/cpu scaling). When shopping for a laptop, there are web pages out there listing various makes and models, and the experiences folks have had with them. They won't necessarily help you find the perfect setup, but they'll get you going. I've also been looking at thinkpads lately, though I don't plan on buying a new machine for some time (unless this one ends up melting down on me). They've got a reputation for being solidly built, they're well-documented online, and IBM and Lenovo supposedly support Linux fairly well.

As for running Arch "flawlessly", well: There's really no way to know that without either a) trying one out or b) listening to testimonials of people who have laptops that may at this point be over-the-hill. A broad swath of info is your only real option when researching these sorts of things.

655321 · 2011-03-12 01:59:27

Excelent insights people! just in case I gave the wrong impression, I dont mind the laptop branding, I just stated on my first post what I want, and those 2 sony laptops fit my needs, regarding the thinkpads, I can live with a 14.1 inch screen, would need to see the 12.1 to check if the screen would be to small, although 13.3 its the perfect size for me. I have checked some thinkpads but they all have intel integrated graphics, haven't seen one with ATI or nvidia dedicated video, If you can point out specific models, that would be awesome, Im going to check on the series that Inxsible suggested.

@alexcriss I would be glad if you could post back here your experience with the sony laptop, specially regarding video card, since ATI support for linux sucked a few years ago but now they really got things going with the open source drivers (as I have read, I have also read that propietary ATI drivers suck), when you test the laptop can you install some demanding game on it and see how it performs? nvidia has better support for linux in my opinion but I would prefer to support open source if the card performs well, also this second laptop is lighter so I would prefer that.

Regarding keyboard, that isnt a deal breaker for me but I would love to get it to work.

Soul_Est · 2011-03-16 14:53:28

There is a ThinkPad T410 model that does come with a dedicated GPU. This page shows the specifications of each T410 model including one with a Nvidia NVS 3100m: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont … 50AAAFE461

Hope it helps.

655321 · 2011-03-16 20:28:41

Soul_Est wrote:

There is a ThinkPad T410 model that does come with a dedicated GPU. This page shows the specifications of each T410 model including one with a Nvidia NVS 3100m: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont … 50AAAFE461
Hope it helps.

Hi, thanks for you reply. Unfortunately that card wont work because it has nvidia optimus, and thats not supported in linux yet, my best bet would be the T410s, thats has a standalone nvidia GPU (NVIDIA GeForce GT 130M 512MB), its a little more expensive but if it willl perform no problems on Arch then its worth the buy, link is here: Lenovo T410s laptop with nvidia graphics

bananaoomarang · 2011-03-24 19:58:43

655321 wrote:

Soul_Est wrote:
There is a ThinkPad T410 model that does come with a dedicated GPU. This page shows the specifications of each T410 model including one with a Nvidia NVS 3100m: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont … 50AAAFE461
Hope it helps.
Hi, thanks for you reply. Unfortunately that card wont work because it has nvidia optimus, and thats not supported in linux yet, my best bet would be the T410s, thats has a standalone nvidia GPU (NVIDIA GeForce GT 130M 512MB), its a little more expensive but if it willl perform no problems on Arch then its worth the buy, link is here: Lenovo T410s laptop with nvidia graphics

Thought all T410s had a BIOS switch allowing you to use dedicated graphics? I found out when researching the laptop I'm using now.

Just my humble advice. Go Lenovo. I'm really impressed with my IdeaPad z560 (Would love a thinkpad but they're too expensive....) running Arhc, proprietary nVidia drivers, wireless worked out of the box, webcam has been detected, majority of hotkeys work (KDE4, although the software based ones obviously don't). Only problem is Mic. not yet working, but I haven't tried troubleshooting much yet. (all appears OK on ALSA volume side)

Last edited by bananaoomarang (2011-03-24 20:03:22)

jaco · 2011-03-24 20:31:34

If you did not need a discrete GPU, i would suggest you the 5320m HP Probook (the I5 model)... but it has an integrated Intel Video chipset.

My lab once lent me a HP Probook 45xx (model with a 15" screen and an ATI discrete GPU) and it worked seamlessly with Linux (i have to give it back and i've now a Toshiba Tecra with a NVidia GPU which is a total crap when i have to use it with two screens..). Furthermore, the HP Probook line is rather sexy (according to my own taste, of course).

Last edited by jaco (2011-03-24 20:41:02)

alexcriss · 2011-03-28 10:59:39

My Vaio SB has just been shipped. Finally ! I hope I'll get it tomorrow and I will for sure report back with more details. Which game tests would you like to see? I don't do gaming so I'm not familiar with tests, however if you provide details I'm willing to give a try

I'm really looking forward to having it, hope that everything works. Now the only question mark is GNOME3 or KDE... (sorry for the OT)

Last edited by alexcriss (2011-03-28 10:59:56)

alexcriss · 2011-03-31 08:39:38

Got it yesterday, here is a quick overview on what I tested so far:

Works:

Design (it is really light and beautiful, the backlight on the keys is amazing.
Sounds.
Wifi.
Ethernet cable.
Battery. 6 hours surfing the WEB is a nice result.

Works with issues:
Intel graphic. It works out of the box but I have problems with VGA output. Images on the external output are not "stable", they tend to flicker and hence fonts are not crisp (this is *bad* for eyes).
Touchpad. It is recognized as a mouse. However tap and edge scrolling work. Still there is no two fingers stuff, which is disappointing.

Doesn't work:
ATI Graphic card. It should be supported by 2.6.38 and in fact enabling testing and loading radeon brings vgaswitcheroo options. However, as soon as I enable the discrete card with eco DDIS > /sys/... the computer freezes. This leaves me with no HDMI and a flickering VGA output -> bad.
NOISE. When idle the computer stays quiet. As soon as you do some intensive tasks (compiling comes to mind) the fan starts to spin quicker and it makes much noise. And with much noise I mean a plane taking off like noise.
Internal Mic. It simply doesn't work, maybe I'm missing something.

Summary.

The Vaio SB is a really good looking and portable machine, but I'm not completely satisfied by it. A major disappointment is noise. It makes working on the laptop uncomfortable. Then the usual touchpad mic issues, but I was prepared to them. What I though would have worked better is the Intel GPU, maybe I just have to wait for updated drivers, I had no time to check for bugs right now.

Hope these lines help you .

PS: I envy everybody that posted recommending Lenovo. The selection of Laptops that they offer in Italy is ridiculous. I would really like to buy one, but they don't think letting me is a good idea

EDIT: HDMI output works also with the intel card, I thought it was tied to the ATI and it is not. It also solves the flickering on the external display. I'm compiling 2.6.38 and I do not know what to think: will it fly out of the window using the internal fan or will it take fire?

Last edited by alexcriss (2011-03-31 14:53:54)

tyron · 2011-04-08 09:57:30

alexcriss wrote:

Got it yesterday, here is a quick overview on what I tested so far:
Works:
Design (it is really light and beautiful, the backlight on the keys is amazing.
Sounds.
Wifi.
Ethernet cable.
Battery. 6 hours surfing the WEB is a nice result.
Works with issues:
Intel graphic. It works out of the box but I have problems with VGA output. Images on the external output are not "stable", they tend to flicker and hence fonts are not crisp (this is *bad* for eyes).
Touchpad. It is recognized as a mouse. However tap and edge scrolling work. Still there is no two fingers stuff, which is disappointing.
Doesn't work:
ATI Graphic card. It should be supported by 2.6.38 and in fact enabling testing and loading radeon brings vgaswitcheroo options. However, as soon as I enable the discrete card with eco DDIS > /sys/... the computer freezes. This leaves me with no HDMI and a flickering VGA output -> bad.
NOISE. When idle the computer stays quiet. As soon as you do some intensive tasks (compiling comes to mind) the fan starts to spin quicker and it makes much noise. And with much noise I mean a plane taking off like noise.
Internal Mic. It simply doesn't work, maybe I'm missing something.
Summary.
The Vaio SB is a really good looking and portable machine, but I'm not completely satisfied by it. A major disappointment is noise. It makes working on the laptop uncomfortable. Then the usual touchpad mic issues, but I was prepared to them. What I though would have worked better is the Intel GPU, maybe I just have to wait for updated drivers, I had no time to check for bugs right now.
Hope these lines help you .
PS: I envy everybody that posted recommending Lenovo. The selection of Laptops that they offer in Italy is ridiculous. I would really like to buy one, but they don't think letting me is a good idea
EDIT: HDMI output works also with the intel card, I thought it was tied to the ATI and it is not. It also solves the flickering on the external display. I'm compiling 2.6.38 and I do not know what to think: will it fly out of the window using the internal fan or will it take fire?

Did you manage to overcome the graphic cards problems? Is the noise so hard to live with?
I'm from Italy too and I'm trying to make my mind beetwen Vaio SB and Vaio CA. Other choices would be Thinkpad T420, TimelineX 3830tg or Satellite R840 but there are no info on the availability date in Italy, beside T420 already in store at the funny price of 1890e.

alexcriss · 2011-04-08 10:08:27

tyron wrote:

Did you manage to overcome the graphic cards problems? Is the noise so hard to live with?
I'm from Italy too and I'm trying to make my mind beetwen Vaio SB and Vaio CA. Other choices would be Thinkpad T420, TimelineX 3830tg or Satellite R840 but there are no info on the availability date in Italy, beside T420 already in store at the funny price of 1890e.

Well, I've returned it. Noise was driving me crazy and I also was not able to use the discrete card. "echo DDIS > ...", or whatever the command was, froze the system, ever. I'm also tired of Sony policy regarding BIOS options and Linux compatibility.

I'm buying a Lenovo T420s from ebay, imported from US. I'm sick and tired of the italian laptop import policy. We have only selected models and they cost twice than in US (the 1851 € for the T420 is ridiculous). I have to say that I'm a little bit scared, never imported anything from the US, however I read accurately the italian customs's site and it seems that you only have to pay the IVA.

I would not recommend the Vaio SB if you are a Linux user and you need a little bit of computing power without using earplugs.

Hope this helps!
Alessandro

tyron · 2011-04-08 17:34:47

alexcriss wrote:

tyron wrote:
Did you manage to overcome the graphic cards problems? Is the noise so hard to live with?
I'm from Italy too and I'm trying to make my mind beetwen Vaio SB and Vaio CA. Other choices would be Thinkpad T420, TimelineX 3830tg or Satellite R840 but there are no info on the availability date in Italy, beside T420 already in store at the funny price of 1890e.
Well, I've returned it. Noise was driving me crazy and I also was not able to use the discrete card. "echo DDIS > ...", or whatever the command was, froze the system, ever. I'm also tired of Sony policy regarding BIOS options and Linux compatibility.
I'm buying a Lenovo T420s from ebay, imported from US. I'm sick and tired of the italian laptop import policy. We have only selected models and they cost twice than in US (the 1851 € for the T420 is ridiculous). I have to say that I'm a little bit scared, never imported anything from the US, however I read accurately the italian customs's site and it seems that you only have to pay the IVA.
I would not recommend the Vaio SB if you are a Linux user and you need a little bit of computing power without using earplugs.
Hope this helps!
Alessandro

Haha, I made the same decision just before reading your answer, I'm buying the t420s 8Gb RAM model from ebay, altough 250e over t420 for 300gr less and better sound is a lot. I've seen some post saying it has complete linux support (with last kernel and Xorg stack). I'm scared about warranty, if anything happens you have to send it back overseas?

Ciao, Carlo

pskept · 2011-04-08 20:17:26

*edit

woops. i don't know how to read apparently. sorry!

Last edited by pskept (2011-04-08 20:18:16)

alexcriss · 2011-04-08 21:15:54

tyron wrote:

Haha, I made the same decision just before reading your answer, I'm buying the t420s 8Gb RAM model from ebay, altough 250e over t420 for 300gr less and better sound is a lot. I've seen some post saying it has complete linux support (with last kernel and Xorg stack). I'm scared about warranty, if anything happens you have to send it back overseas?

Well, I don't even want to think of that happening Let's hope for the best. U.S. don't fail please! Regarding Linux the thinkpad should deliver. I've been dreaming of fan control, smapi module and trackpoint for a long time. It's time to change that dream to reality (and ditch proprietary expensive Italy imported crap).

Alessandro

EDIT: Bought yesterday, launch time GMT. Today UPS says that my laptop is in Milan. This seems to be a dream!!

EDIT II (little bit OT, but it might be helpful to the OP): The Thinkpad T420s arrived today, incredible! I booted Arch from a USB drive and all that I've tested worked (except Wifi, but I was on 2.6.37 and the card is supported starting from 2.6.38). Yet to test the VGA/Display ports and the mic. I am confident the the first will work, let's hope that the mic does not give trouble. I really recommend this laptop over the Sony Vaio SB, its quality seems to be of another league and linux is definitely better supported.

Last edited by alexcriss (2011-04-11 17:24:24)

dhave · 2011-04-21 14:27:02

alexcriss wrote:

I'm buying a Lenovo T420s from ebay, imported from US. I'm sick and tired of the italian laptop import policy. We have only selected models and they cost twice than in US (the 1851 € for the T420 is ridiculous). I have to say that I'm a little bit scared, never imported anything from the US, however I read accurately the italian customs's site and it seems that you only have to pay the IVA.

I'd be interested in hearing how the importation goes, if there are extra charges beyond the VAT, etc. You'll still probably come out on top, even if there are "presentation" fees.

alexcriss · 2011-04-21 14:43:23

Well, this comes from an Italian point of view. I had to pay the 1399$ that covered the price of the laptop as per the Ebay auction, 90$ for the shipment, then there were 16€ for something Italian that I do not remember now and the Italian IVA (this is one of our main taxes and it asks for 20% of the laptop+shipment price). *No* customs fees are applied to laptops (this is a lifesaver, because the 20% from IVA applies after those fees).

Hence I've paid around 1250€ for the T420s, which is *way* lower than the 1851€ asked by Lenovo.it for a T420 (less expensive than the T420s). Specs between the two are somewhat similar, my T420s has an i5 with 8Gb of RAM, the T420 on the Lenovo.it site has an i7 with 4Gb of RAM; the i7 could be slightly more expensive but does not justify 600€ more on a laptop that in the US starts 300$ less than the T420s.

Note that all this is legal, I have my receipt from the Italian customs and I payed taxes

Hope this helps

Last edited by alexcriss (2011-04-21 15:25:06)

FurryDonkey · 2011-05-06 01:18:16

Hi

I am thinking about buying the T420 or T420s as well. The am wondering if you guys got the nvidia card or not. I have read that the card can be turned off or on in the Bios; is this true?. If the Nvidia card is turned off I assume that the Sandy Bridge integrated graphics would still work. How about if the card is enabled; is there and Nvidia driver that works. I realize that Optimus won't work under linux, but I am thinking if I could have two Arch installs, one to boot up with the nvidia card and the other one to boot up using the integrated graphics only. Also, any other updated on how the laptop runs arch would be cool.

dhave · 2011-05-06 02:05:16

FurryDonkey wrote:

Hi
I am thinking about buying the T420 or T420s as well. The am wondering if you guys got the nvidia card or not. I have read that the card can be turned off or on in the Bios; is this true?. If the Nvidia card is turned off I assume that the Sandy Bridge integrated graphics would still work. How about if the card is enabled; is there and Nvidia driver that works. I realize that Optimus won't work under linux, but I am thinking if I could have two Arch installs, one to boot up with the nvidia card and the other one to boot up using the integrated graphics only. Also, any other updated on how the laptop runs arch would be cool.

On my T420, I turn Optimus off but leave discrete graphics on. That works fine for Linux, using the proprietary Nvidia driver. I believe the nouveau driver works, too. (I ran SystemRescueCD just fine, and I think it uses nouveau.)

In other words, the Nvidia-equipped T420's bios actually gives you three graphics options: (1) integrated, (2) discrete with Optimus, and (3) discrete without Optimus. In the bios settings, there's a warning not to use Optimus with non-Windows OSes.

Last edited by dhave (2011-05-06 02:08:07)

Arch Linux

#1 2011-03-11 06:27:39

Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#2 2011-03-11 11:04:12

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#3 2011-03-11 12:56:24

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#4 2011-03-11 13:29:46

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#5 2011-03-11 14:20:42

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#6 2011-03-11 15:05:06

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#7 2011-03-11 15:24:29

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#8 2011-03-11 15:41:55

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#9 2011-03-11 16:37:38

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#10 2011-03-12 01:59:27

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#11 2011-03-16 14:53:28

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#12 2011-03-16 20:28:41

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#13 2011-03-24 19:58:43

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#14 2011-03-24 20:31:34

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#15 2011-03-28 10:59:39

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#16 2011-03-31 08:39:38

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#17 2011-04-08 09:57:30

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#18 2011-04-08 10:08:27

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#19 2011-04-08 17:34:47

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#20 2011-04-08 20:17:26

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#21 2011-04-08 21:15:54

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#22 2011-04-21 14:27:02

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#23 2011-04-21 14:43:23

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#24 2011-05-06 01:18:16

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

#25 2011-05-06 02:05:16

Re: Will this laptops run Arch Flawlessly?

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