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#1 2011-04-02 22:44:59

Tripsun
Member
Registered: 2011-01-22
Posts: 27

Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

I've looked through the various community pages for the arch browsers + surf and they all look incredible.  I don't know that there has been a discussion of the relative pros/cons and I would really like to hear some people's views on the different browsers.

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#2 2011-05-13 21:50:01

Digit
Member
Registered: 2008-04-28
Posts: 67

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

i checked out surf briefly, being a suckless fan. since surf is based on uzbl i heard, i thought i'd cut out the middleman.  (cant find where i read that... not sure if it started with uzbl code, or just took inspiration).

i had tried uzbl briefly a while back in it's early days, and have just a couple days ago decided to give it a solid dedicated trial run of a fortnight, pledging to never open firefox for the duration... 3 days in n i cant see myself going back to firefox.

i've only just recently learned of luakit and jumanji.  normally i'd go check them out, but i'm commited to this two weeks with uzbl (which already looks like it's passed the test).


bct from #uzbl had this to say on the matter:

my opinion:
luakit is probably more flexible than uzbl (you have more control over the browser chrome), but it's probably harder to start hacking a config together unless you're familiar with lua
i don't know why somebody would use surf over the other options unless their needs/wants are very limited
i haven't really used jumanji
i think uzbl really shines for people who live inside xterms, whose native language is *sh.
but one thing i'm trying to do is expand the config so that it's a good lightweight keyboard-driven browser out-of-the-box
(obviously surf can do whatever you want it to, but personally i don't customize things unless it's really easy)
i do like the way that jumanji and zathura share some of their UI code

iirc, someone said luakit has saner defaults than uzbl.

tj, also in #uzbl had this to add:

I tried luakit and it looks great, but I cant make any sense of lua. Im not really that great with sh or python either but I can at least read them and make sense and half ass things together when I need them
uzbl is nice because it already has a large collection of scripts to work with
luakit seems like if you want something you need to do it yourself

oh, and a little more on uzbl from me...
uzbl seems remarkably mature for only having been around for a couple of years.  testimony to using sh, over something exotic like lua.
uzbl-tabbed seems to take a little extra work/workarounds to get some features to work, that work straight forwardly in uzbl-browser.

Last edited by Digit (2011-05-13 21:54:00)


fave quote of the mo': "Man's reach should exceed his grasp, else what's a heaven for." - Robert Browning

have a nice day!

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#3 2011-05-13 23:57:15

firecat53
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From: Sammamish, Wa
Registered: 2007-05-14
Posts: 1,447
Website

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

Don't forget dwb in your vs comparison. But as with most things around here...just install them all and see which one grabs you!! We all have opinions smile

Scott

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#4 2011-05-14 00:46:32

arinlares
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From: Anaheim, CA
Registered: 2010-02-01
Posts: 165
Website

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

Of these, I use(d) uzbl-tabbed for my light-weight browsing needs, but have since been running into stability issues that have since been fixed in the git tree.  I'll keep using it, I just need to man up and get used to having separate windows again.  I tried Jumanji out when I first encountered the instability with uzbl-tabbed, and it just didn't feel right, but I didn't take the time to learn it, either.  Surf has too much of the dwm simplicity for me, and while I like using dwm sometimes, I don't like that in my browser, and Lua configuration is one of the main reasons I stopped using Awesome as my window manager, so I don't want to tinker with luakit.

Last edited by arinlares (2011-05-14 01:01:46)

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#5 2011-05-14 00:57:08

Cyrusm
Member
From: Bozeman, MT
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 1,052

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

First off, I have no experience with surf or jumanji, however I have heard loads of good things.

I spent a day playing with luakit and I really like the work they have done with it. after a little while I decided that I don't have the time or inclination to play with Lua right now.

I currently use uzbl as my main browser for several reasons:  I love that it is extensible in any scripting language that Linux can handle. I love that it is easily hackable because of this, the simple config file, and the general adherence to the Unix philosophy of "do one thing and do it well."  There are downsides however. Uzbl is  a browser young in developement, and therefore each update brings improvements that (although much better than previous verions!) will probably ruin your config file and give you an hour or two of headache. The cookie handling isn't great, and the link following in luakit is better.  That said, I still really enjoy my uzbl browsing experience.  I've had a lot of fun working with this browser and I would suggest it to anyone willing to put some work into configuring an incredible browsing experience for themselves.  Out of the box uzbl is okay, over time it is incredible.


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#6 2011-05-14 05:11:55

fsckd
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 3,552

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

Uzbl was getting stale last year but this year I've been hearing more of it. It must be seeing good improvements. I used uzbl for most of last year and luakit since New Years 2011? As with many who go from X to Y, I prefer Y over X.

Config and Scripting

Uzbl's config language is custom and defers logic to external programs and scripts. It can be controlled on the command line through socat which is, frankly, awesome. You can wrap other programs around uzbl. This is already done by uzbl-browser which in turn is wrapped by uzbl-tabbed.

Luakit is configed in lua. You won't need to learn lua to do basic config but if you want to do some serious hacking, obviously.

Security and Controls

Both suck security wise. Luakit has domain props which let you turn off features for all sites, then selectively turn them on for some sites. I do not know of any such feature in uzbl.

Stability and Resource Usage

I've found luakit to be more stable than uzbl-tabbed but about as stable as uzbl and uzbl-browser. Not that there aren't sites which cause problems in both. Consider that many of the underlying libraries are shared and both inherit the same set of issues caused by them.

Uzbl takes more memory than chromium (when running multiple instances of uzbl). Luakit uses very little memory. Even with 40 tabs open! This may be because I've turned javascript off for most sites but this is a major selling point for me.

Misc

Uzbl-tabbed tab persistence is at closing. The session info is deleted when running so if killed or crashed, all your tabs are lost!

Luakit by default behaves the same. You can write out with the command :write (which I've aliased to :w). To keep session data from being deleted when running, in rc.lua change the line local w = (session and session.restore()) to local w = (session and session.restore(false)) .


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#7 2011-05-14 05:44:15

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

I got hooked on Jumanji's speed and simplicity months ago.  It's easy to customize through its single config file, and (maybe my favorite feature)  the tab, input and status bars can be hidden, leaving any page I'm viewing to fill the space between conky and my panel.  I don't like having all the extra crap crowding the screen and menus--crap I'm never gonna use anyway.  Jumanji eliminates all of it and just displays web pages.

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#8 2011-05-14 07:27:58

tjwoosta
Member
Registered: 2008-12-18
Posts: 453

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

fsckd wrote:

Security and Controls

Both suck security wise. Luakit has domain props which let you turn off features for all sites, then selectively turn them on for some sites. I do not know of any such feature in uzbl.

uzbl has a per-site-settings file that allows you to enable or disable settings for only specific domains, if thats what you mean. For example you can disable js and plugins in your config, then enable them selectively by domain with per-site-settings. It also has cookie whitelisting/blacklisting.

Last edited by tjwoosta (2011-05-14 07:35:34)

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#9 2011-05-14 18:59:43

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

On a whim, after reading this thread, I installed luakit last night.  I'd been unwilling to deal with trying to learn the basics of lua, as it takes me quite a while to learn new, serious hacking skills; I also don't care that much about extensibility, since I just browse and download.  As it turns out, the configuration files are annotated clearly enough for basic key bindings and interface customization.  Jumanji's configuration isn't well documented, but luakit's is, and even compared to Jumanji it is damn fast.  I may have found my new browser of choice; I'll know after a few days of playing around.

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#10 2011-05-14 19:20:12

chris-kun
Member
From: SF Bay Area
Registered: 2010-09-07
Posts: 235
Website

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

dwb ftw


[home page] -- [code / configs]

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#11 2011-05-14 20:33:36

skanky
Member
From: WAIS
Registered: 2009-10-23
Posts: 1,838

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

There's also xxxterm (just to help reach completeness off comparison).


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#12 2011-05-14 22:05:06

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

Using text file entered in run window to load multiple url's in jumanji...performs repeatedly on reboots.  Most I have included was eighteen url's.  Loads eight in 10 secs.

Each one is selectable with the mouse and normal functions of the key strokes work correctly.

Haven't tried any other..


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#13 2011-05-14 23:19:08

mhertz
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2010-06-19
Posts: 664

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

For vim/minimalist fans, then i'd recommend jumanji or dwb.

Single binary coded in C, with simple text configuration files, vim keybinds and nice minimal but highly functional UI!

I myself use jumanji, but have also tried and likes very much dwb, which to me resembles jumanji very much, but jumanji is a little smaller in footprint(same ram usage though). The biggest difference to me, is that dwb features tiling built-in, instead of e.g. relying on your tiling wm for that...

I've just quickly tried uzbl just out of curiosity, but I prefer a single C coded binary i.e. a precompiled solution, instead of relying upon python scripts and such for the ui features... Granted, however, we owe much to uzbl for starting this whole linux vim/minimalist browsing scene!

Just my humble oppinion and 2 cents smile

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#14 2011-05-14 23:34:31

techne
Member
Registered: 2011-05-08
Posts: 26

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

mhertz wrote:

Granted, however, we owe much to uzbl for starting this whole linux vim/minimalist browsing scene!

Anywhere I can find a general statement about this linux-vim-minimalist scene? Maybe someone knows of a blog or something along those lines.

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#15 2011-06-16 15:18:58

mendieta
Member
From: Patagonia Argentina
Registered: 2011-02-17
Posts: 7

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

firecat53 wrote:

Don't forget dwb in your vs comparison. But as with most things around here...just install them all and see which one grabs you!! We all have opinions smile

Scott

Never heard about it before, so I installed it yesterday and gave it a try.
I think it's definitely my choice. Great app! smile
Thanks!

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#16 2011-06-16 16:55:39

Army
Member
Registered: 2007-12-07
Posts: 1,784

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

> But I'm sure that in the future luakit will be my main browser.
And it happened! smile I digged deeper into the abilities of privoxy, luakit has a noscript plugin and a very practical cookie management, so that's totally awesome. Still not perfect of course, but I really really love it! Thanks so much Mason!!!

Last edited by Army (2011-07-15 08:57:47)

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#17 2011-07-15 05:45:45

F
Member
Registered: 2006-10-09
Posts: 322

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

tabbed + surf = the greatest.

I'm probably never going back to Opera.
I was a HUGE fan of the browser dillo -- but since that project has died it was hard to find a replacement. I've been using Opera since then since it seemed the cleanest and was the fastest browser. I then switched to uzbl for a while, but once I found out suckless.org was putting out a browser I basically knew it was what I was going to use.


techne wrote:

Anywhere I can find a general statement about this linux-vim-minimalist scene? Maybe someone knows of a blog or something along those lines.

Read this: http://suckless.org/manifest/

Last edited by F (2011-07-15 05:47:39)

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#18 2011-07-17 12:27:40

laite
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 33

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

I'm really intrigued about these simplistic, keyboard controlled browsers, but haven't found match for one plugin from chromium: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta … fcdodpjbgk

Does something like this exist for any of the minimalistic browsers? Would it be hard to code? I personally don't quite know where to start doing something like this.. hmm

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#19 2011-07-17 13:10:33

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,428

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

laite wrote:

I'm really intrigued about these simplistic, keyboard controlled browsers, but haven't found match for one plugin from chromium: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta … fcdodpjbgk

Does something like this exist for any of the minimalistic browsers? Would it be hard to code? I personally don't quite know where to start doing something like this.. hmm

But what function exactly do you need?

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#20 2011-07-17 13:19:32

laite
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 33

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

karol wrote:

But what function exactly do you need?

Plugin simplified: there is command (,) which puts 'tooltip' over every visible link on page. Tooltip consists only of selected characters (e.g. a,s,d,f, so the tooltips are like 'a','asf','aas' etc.), so one can only with these four characters jump immediately to any link, without need to use mouse or 'navigate' through every link in page with keyboard (like in Opera).

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#21 2011-07-17 13:34:50

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,428

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

laite wrote:
karol wrote:

But what function exactly do you need?

Plugin simplified: there is command (,) which puts 'tooltip' over every visible link on page. Tooltip consists only of selected characters (e.g. a,s,d,f, so the tooltips are like 'a','asf','aas' etc.), so one can only with these four characters jump immediately to any link, without need to use mouse or 'navigate' through every link in page with keyboard (like in Opera).

You can try out jumanji https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=115119
The middle thumbnail shows the hints (or tooltips, as you call them), but the screenshots are mixed up, so you won't get a bigger version :-(

And there even is a script to customize your hints https://pwmt.org/projects/jumanji/scripts/

Last edited by karol (2011-07-17 13:37:23)

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#22 2011-07-17 14:22:32

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

karol wrote:
laite wrote:
karol wrote:

But what function exactly do you need?

Plugin simplified: there is command (,) which puts 'tooltip' over every visible link on page. Tooltip consists only of selected characters (e.g. a,s,d,f, so the tooltips are like 'a','asf','aas' etc.), so one can only with these four characters jump immediately to any link, without need to use mouse or 'navigate' through every link in page with keyboard (like in Opera).

You can try out jumanji https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=115119
The middle thumbnail shows the hints (or tooltips, as you call them), but the screenshots are mixed up, so you won't get a bigger version :-(

And there even is a script to customize your hints https://pwmt.org/projects/jumanji/scripts/

Luakit--and if I'm not mistaken, Uzbl--also have this feature.  just hit the "F" key, and either hit the number/letter the link is labelled with, or begin typing the linked word.

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#23 2011-07-17 15:02:52

laite
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 33

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

Thank you, karol and ANOKNUSA, that's exactly what I wanted smile

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#24 2011-07-17 15:04:51

firecat53
Member
From: Sammamish, Wa
Registered: 2007-05-14
Posts: 1,447
Website

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

As does dwb....

Scott

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#25 2011-07-17 15:15:34

jakob
Member
From: Berlin
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 419

Re: Uzbl v jumanji v surf v luakit

and jumanji…

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