Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

Mr. Alex · 2011-08-30 11:01:39

Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++ programming?
PHP job compared to tasks that Java/C++ developers receive when they work for companies and develop application software.

cra · 2011-08-30 12:07:23

Is your question should be rephrased as "Is web programming significantly easier than non-web?"

I would suggest to stop looking at programming as a choice of programming language.

SidK · 2011-08-30 13:51:16

I'd like to answer your question Mr. Alex, but I don't really know what you mean be "easier". Do you mean easier to program? Easier to plan the project? Easier to maintain? Easier to get a job in?

Two two domains are very different, they have different demands. I have a friend who writes software for financial companies. She's said she'd be horrified doing what I do because you've got to juggle so many things (back-end, front-end, JavaScript, clients). Equally I said I'd be horrified doing what she's doing.
That's about as good an answer I can provide until you qualify what you mean by "easier".

Mr. Alex · 2011-08-30 14:06:27

SidK wrote:

I'd like to answer your question Mr. Alex, but I don't really know what you mean be "easier". Do you mean easier to program? Easier to plan the project? Easier to maintain? Easier to get a job in?

I mean who has more simple tasks to perform - Web-developer or application developer (in general)? I think Web-developer, but that's just a guess and I want to know from programmers. Web-developers don't have to deal with hardware programming, multi-thread programming, toolkit programming and all cross-platform related stuff. But web-development has it's own peculiarities.

If a programmer is not very experienced, he can receive a task which he won't know how to code. Like developing unique equalizer from scratch. I guess it's a complicated task. So do web-developers receive task which are as complicated as application developers' tasks?

Inxsible · 2011-08-30 14:09:41

I think you haven't still entered the job market yet.

Believe me when I say this: No matter what job you do, there will be a time when you get a task, you have no clue about. But you learn on the job. Everybody does.

As an application developer, I still have to work with some technologies of web-development or front end stuff like Flash, jQuery, AJAX etc. Web Developer may not have to deal with databases or server side programming -- atleast the place I work at. Things might be different in other companies. Many also tend to use the terms interchangeably.

As an advice, don't get pinned down on any one technology or paradigm. You will have to be versatile or you will find yourself out of the job pretty soon.

SidK · 2011-08-30 14:33:35

Inxsible wrote:

As an application developer, I still have to work with some technologies of web-development or front end stuff like Flash, jQuery, AJAX etc

And as a web developer (back-end, so I do have to deal with databases and server side programming) I have to occasionally work with some technologies of application development. I recall having to write a program in .NET to process some three hundred thousand images into smaller pieces so they could be zoomed (google maps style) on the website.

Inxsible is totally correct regarding learning on the job. Though one thing I dislike about web development is that a lot of companies don't differentiate between web development and web design. They'll often ask one person to do everything from server side programming and DB stuff to HTML and CSS and even the design. That requires not only a new skillset but an eye for the aesthetic. While I know CSS (and could learn fireworks) I would never call myself a designer.

Last edited by SidK (2011-08-30 14:33:52)

satanselbow · 2011-08-30 16:55:47

cra wrote:

Is your question should be rephrased as "Is web programming significantly easier than non-web?"
I would suggest to stop looking at programming as a choice of programming language.

Programming is nearly always a choice of languages... or every project regardless of senario or purpose would be in python / C++ / Ruby / PHP etc etc etc. Trying to make a project fit a specific language is a rocky road indeed.

As for the OP question - without a look at the full brief / spec there is no way anyone here can make a sensible decision If by "corporate" code you mean OOP - then NO C++ is no "harder" and the transition from C++/PHP is relatively painless

jacmoe · 2011-09-12 00:59:05

It isn't significantly easier than C++ - as a PHP programmer and a C++ programmer I would say that PHP programming for the web is slightly easier because - if you are using a MVC framework - the separation between model, view and controller is a lot clearer.
And you don't have to hit 'compile' all the time.
But, in my experience, web programmers tend to having to deal with more diverse techs than C++ programmers do: javascript, ajax, database, design (Gimp?), php, apache, server configuration, bash scripting, security..
That really depends on what position you have, obviously. Code monkeys are code monkeys regardless of language.
But the bottom line is: the difference is much smaller than you might think.

wolfdogg · 2011-09-18 08:47:26

I have to agree alot with what jacmoe just said. As a website application developer, i have grown from a website designer. It all started with css, html, designing websites. There you can call yourself a website designer. Once you get that down then you want to throw some dynamics in there. In comes the php to control the server side dynamics. working with that for a few years you take on mysql or your favorite database, which allows you to complete the full circle of MVC or multi tiered applications that can do way more than just web design, but in this case can be actual applications, not just web accessible. At some point in time you take on java-script, usually very early on, then asynchronous to control the dom on the fly once you get the rest down, then you have the full tool set. then instead of just website design you have applications.

So, its not a matter of easy, its just what your interests are. do you want to stick to websites, and make them into applications, or do you want to build gui's. Im not familiar with java however but to me i see a great amont of similarities to php as far as the syntax.

So as far as corporate applications, myself, i try to sell them on website applications, where as a java programmer might try to sell them on something different. As far as the job being easy, i think a programmer just takes on a little more each time the rest becomes a little easier. like math, you have to climb the first rung before you can be on the 2nd. And likewise i imagine for a java programmer its the same. So, that tells me that no matter what type of programmer you are, you are either on the bleeding edge of technology where you have to blaze a trail that is always taking up all of your brain power, or your stuck learning the old stuff because its difficult, which still takes up all of your brain power. Either way, one can either consider it hard, or if they love it, maybe just consider it stressful at times, but rewarding at some point in the phase of development of each project.

And as Inxsible mentioned, the terms can be interchangeable, because its alot of times they really dont know what they need to get a job done, they just need a developer to make it happen, lol. thats the fun part.

Last edited by wolfdogg (2011-09-18 08:50:15)

Mr. Alex · 2011-09-18 11:13:21

Thanks wolfdogg!

Sean-Der · 2011-09-21 15:19:27

I think that everyone has said it already, but it basically comes down to the fact that they can not be compared.

A web developer has to deal with multiple languages/markup/RDBMs (HTML/CSS, Javascript, PHP and MySQL) for example. It can grow to be a large complex job. This is what I do for a living and I found at first it felt insurmountable to even realize the scope of everything you are working with. As time went on though things started to flow and I really found myself taking pride in the fact that my code started to be more well written as time went on.

Now here is a question for all you Gurus out there! I know the basics of object oriented PHP, but I still mainly write procedural function based code. What is a good language (Python, C , C++) that I can make myself useful and do some fun stuff Linux wise? I have heard that Python and Perl are great scripting wise, but I guess my aspiration is to some day end up giving back as much as I get from the community. Even if I commit just a few bug fixes to my favorite software it is something that I have thought about alot lately

Mr. Alex · 2011-09-21 16:37:04

Learn C/C++ and develop/patch window managers, we need them.

Last edited by Mr. Alex (2011-09-21 16:37:27)

Sean-Der · 2011-09-21 23:20:33

I would love to help with XFCE especially as they seem to have sights on developing a DE and taking over the crown from GNOME for sane GTK desktop

Arch Linux

#1 2011-08-30 11:01:39

Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#2 2011-08-30 12:07:23

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#3 2011-08-30 13:51:16

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#4 2011-08-30 14:06:27

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#5 2011-08-30 14:09:41

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#6 2011-08-30 14:33:35

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#7 2011-08-30 16:55:47

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#8 2011-09-12 00:59:05

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#9 2011-09-18 08:47:26

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#10 2011-09-18 11:13:21

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#11 2011-09-21 15:19:27

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#12 2011-09-21 16:37:04

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

#13 2011-09-21 23:20:33

Re: Is corporate PHP programming significantly easier than Java/C++?

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