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#1 2012-06-13 21:03:16

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

After I installed Arch I had some problems installing a Windowmanager/Desktop GUI at one of my PCs.
Then I found Archbang https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ArchBang#ArchBang which I installed on that PC.

When I posted a question in this forum regarding CUPS I installed on my Arch Linux, I wrote that I used Archbang, my topic was closed & I was pointed to the Netiquette which states that this forum is for "Arch Linux Distribution Support ONLY".

I thought that Archbang was exactly the same as Arch Linux, with the only difference that Openbox was installed by default.
My /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist only lists a local Archlinux repository, so I use the installation packages from Arch Linux.

I understand that for instance Ubuntu is very different from Debian from which it was derived, but that they both use .deb packages.
Regarding Arch & Archbang linux: are those really that different? If so, what's the difference?

Should I have installed Arch Linux and then Openbox myself instead to consider my system being an Arch Linux PC?
Thanks in advance!

Last edited by pe7er (2012-06-13 21:03:54)


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#2 2012-06-13 21:09:25

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 28,119
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

There have been any number of people making this mistake. Archbang is not Arch, either in terms of its philosophy or its setup.

The only difference is not Openbox installed by default, there are other choices that Archbang makes that are not evident to the user: most famously the decision (now revoked I understand) to have a keybind for pacman -Syuf.

pe7er wrote:

Should I have installed Arch Linux and then Openbox myself instead to consider my system being an Arch Linux PC?

Yes. The whole point of Arch is to have complete control, and responsibility for your system: a prebuilt system doesn't do that for you...


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Surfraw

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#3 2012-06-13 21:11:46

Allan
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From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,904
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

jasonwryan wrote:

most famously the decision (now revoked I understand) to have a keybind for pacman -Syuf.

pacman -Syyuuf

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#4 2012-06-13 21:18:14

fatboy
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From: India
Registered: 2012-03-17
Posts: 73

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

From the link you gave Archbang does seem to have it's own BBS, perhaps you should have tried there?

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#5 2012-06-13 21:18:29

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 28,119
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

Allan wrote:
jasonwryan wrote:

most famously the decision (now revoked I understand) to have a keybind for pacman -Syuf.

pacman -Syyuuf


The truth reinforces my point! tongue


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Surfraw

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#6 2012-06-13 21:21:01

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

jasonwryan wrote:

There have been any number of people making this mistake. Archbang is not Arch, either in terms of its philosophy or its setup.

The only difference is not Openbox installed by default, there are other choices that Archbang makes that are not evident to the user: most famously the decision (now revoked I understand) to have a keybind for pacman -Syuf.

Ok, thanks for this clearification!

jasonwryan wrote:
pe7er wrote:

Should I have installed Arch Linux and then Openbox myself instead to consider my system being an Arch Linux PC?

Yes. The whole point of Arch is to have complete control, and responsibility for your system: a prebuilt system doesn't do that for you...

ok, that will be my next (future) challenge when I have somewhat more experience with Arch(bang).
Maybe I'll first try to install Arch + Openbox myself in Virtualbox before doing on my production machine.

Thanks for your response!


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OS: Arch Linux | Arch Linux ARM | Debian | Ubuntu
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#7 2012-06-13 21:26:01

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

Allan wrote:
jasonwryan wrote:

most famously the decision (now revoked I understand) to have a keybind for pacman -Syuf.

pacman -Syyuuf

Sorry, I'm a newbie (hence this forum smile) and don't know what you mean with keybind, or what pacman -Syyuuf should do... hmm
On Archbang I only used pacman -S to install packages & pacman -Syyu to update my system...


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#8 2012-06-13 21:29:05

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

fatboy wrote:

From the link you gave Archbang does seem to have it's own BBS, perhaps you should have tried there?

Yes, I know, thank you.
I posted here because I thought both systems were the same,
and this forum showed some results when I searched on the printer in question (Canon MP250).

I just reposted my Archbang + CUPS question over there...

Thank you all for this info.


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#9 2012-06-13 21:29:54

Pres
Member
Registered: 2011-09-12
Posts: 423

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

pe7er wrote:
Allan wrote:
jasonwryan wrote:

most famously the decision (now revoked I understand) to have a keybind for pacman -Syuf.

pacman -Syyuuf

Sorry, I'm a newbie (hence this forum smile) and don't know what you mean with keybind, or what pacman -Syyuuf should do... hmm
On Archbang I only used pacman -S to install packages & pacman -Syyu to update my system...

Read the man page to figure out what it does. As a warning in case it wasn't clear, you should never run that.

Last edited by Pres (2012-06-13 21:30:47)

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#10 2012-06-13 21:36:17

/dev/zero
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 1,247
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

pe7er wrote:
Allan wrote:

pacman -Syyuuf

Sorry, I'm a newbie (hence this forum smile) and don't know what you mean with keybind, or what pacman -Syyuuf should do... hmm
On Archbang I only used pacman -S to install packages & pacman -Syyu to update my system...

See man pacman for an explanation of the flags. The second y is generally unnecessary and the second u appears to be undefined (I don't see it in the manual?); -Syyu should be okay but most people use -Syu.

The -f flag, though, that is a big no-no. Never use it unless you see a news item on the Archlinux homepage saying you should use it. Even then, have a think about it before you go ahead and mindlessly obey.

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#11 2012-06-13 21:41:38

fatboy
Member
From: India
Registered: 2012-03-17
Posts: 73

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

/dev/zero wrote:

the second u appears to be undefined (I don't see it in the manual?)

It was hidden in the Su section:

Pass this option twice to enable package downgrade

Last edited by fatboy (2012-06-13 21:42:03)

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#12 2012-06-13 21:43:36

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

Pres wrote:

Read the man page to figure out what it does. As a warning in case it wasn't clear, you should never run that.

Cheers! I didn't see that chain of options in the pacman man page.

Does it mean: force a resfresh of all packages while downgrade everything that does not match with the local version?

pacman -S (sync)
yy (Passing two --refresh or -y flags will force a refresh of all package lists even if they appear to be up to date)
uu (Pass this option twice to enable package downgrade; in this case pacman will select sync packages whose version does not match with the local version. This can be useful when the user switches from a testing repo to a stable one)
f (force?)

Is that command with those specific options possible on Archbang and not possible at Arch Linux?


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#13 2012-06-13 21:43:38

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

Another Arch v. ArchBang difference:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 8#p1052028

fsckd wrote:

From reading that thread I see ArchBang by default has files in /etc/sudoers.d which is not true for Arch Linux (currently).

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#14 2012-06-13 21:47:20

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

/dev/zero wrote:

See man pacman for an explanation of the flags. The second y is generally unnecessary and the second u appears to be undefined (I don't see it in the manual?); -Syyu should be okay but most people use -Syu.

-Syyu & -Syu are the options I used before to sync my repositorylist & upgrade installed packages.

/dev/zero wrote:

The -f flag, though, that is a big no-no. Never use it unless you see a news item on the Archlinux homepage saying you should use it. Even then, have a think about it before you go ahead and mindlessly obey.

Thanks!
Yes I used -f when I had some problems with upgrading pacman & certain files being locked (and the solution with that option was indeed mentioned on the Archlinux homepage: http://www.archlinux.org/news/filesyste … equired-1/ )


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#15 2012-06-13 21:51:05

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

karol wrote:

Another Arch v. ArchBang difference:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 8#p1052028

fsckd wrote:

From reading that thread I see ArchBang by default has files in /etc/sudoers.d which is not true for Arch Linux (currently).

Ah, that explains why my Archbang command line doesn't ask me for a password when I use sudo...

mhh... I'd better invest some more time to find out how to install Openbox manually, so I can have a pure Arch Linux system as well... :-)
Thanks!


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#16 2012-06-13 22:01:11

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,130

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

pe7er, as you can see there are differences between the systems. And right now, people are fishing for answers for you. However, over time it becomes difficult to keep track of what Archbang devs are doing and how different an Archbang system is from Arch.

That was the primary reason we created a policy to only support Arch rather than give faulty advice to other distro users which may or may not boink their machines.

I post this here as this thread is a good example of why we have that policy.


Forum Rules

There's no such thing as a stupid question, but there sure are a lot of inquisitive idiots !

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#17 2012-06-13 22:03:23

2ManyDogs
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 2,798

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

pe7er wrote:

mhh... I'd better invest some more time to find out how to install Openbox manually, so I can have a pure Arch Linux system as well... :-)
Thanks!

You won't be sorry. It's really not that hard.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-06-13 22:03:54)

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#18 2012-06-13 22:07:34

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

Inxsible wrote:

pe7er, as you can see there are differences between the systems. And right now, people are fishing for answers for you. However, over time it becomes difficult to keep track of what Archbang devs are doing and how different an Archbang system is from Arch.

That was the primary reason we created a policy to only support Arch rather than give faulty advice to other distro users which may or may not boink their machines.

I post this here as this thread is a good example of why we have that policy.

Yes, thanks.

I was confused but I do understand now that there are more differences between Arch & Archbang then the Openbox window manager.
And why you have this policy at this forum.

Thank you all for my newly obtained knowledge... :-)


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#19 2012-06-13 22:17:12

LinuxFrenzy
Member
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: 2012-05-24
Posts: 33

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

Installing Arch is not that difficult if you follow the wiki.I have always seen people post complaining about how Arch is such a pain to install.I read through the wiki and the beginners guide prior to installing to make sure which packages I will need.Sure others take longer to install the base but in the long run it is well worth it.Currently have Arch + XFCE4 installed and the beauty of Arch is that I am able to customize it to whatever I wan't if I decide to switch to Openbox,KDE,LXDE.

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#20 2012-06-13 22:29:05

pe7er
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From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
Website

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

LinuxFrenzy wrote:

Installing Arch is not that difficult if you follow the wiki.I have always seen people post complaining about how Arch is such a pain to install.I read through the wiki and the beginners guide prior to installing to make sure which packages I will need.Sure others take longer to install the base but in the long run it is well worth it.Currently have Arch + XFCE4 installed and the beauty of Arch is that I am able to customize it to whatever I wan't if I decide to switch to Openbox,KDE,LXDE.

Yeah, installing Arch itself was not that hard.
The only difficulty for me was choosing which base & extra packages to install during the initial installation.
I decided to install only the recommended ones, and install everything else later on.

I used the wiki (+ some tutorials I found on the net) but had problems with
1. choosing which window manager to install
2. installing LXDE and Openbox. And I also tried Gnome, but didn't know what to do with d-bus etc.

So when I installed Archbang, I didn't have to install Openbox myself.
And I was able to configure the "widget" on my desktop (Conky) something I never did/used at my previous Linux versions Ubuntu & Debian.

But I will try Arch Linux (the pure version) again + install Openbox manually (probably in a Virtualbox first smile)


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#21 2012-06-13 22:34:18

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 22,283
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Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

I think the parameter order in Syuf is unintuitive.  It should be `pacman -Fuys` because clearly it stands for "F(*&ed up your system".


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#22 2012-06-13 22:55:32

fatboy
Member
From: India
Registered: 2012-03-17
Posts: 73

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

LinuxFrenzy wrote:

follow the wiki

I completely agree, even a relative noob like me was able to breeze through the install using the beginner's guide.
Then it took me two weeks to set up everything to my liking, but the end result was (is) worth it smile

pe7er, I found that instead of worrying about what packages to installed from the outset, it was better to let the system evolve with your need. For eg. one day I realized my graphics performance was not up to the mark, so I ended up downgrading xorg and installing catalyst. I have lost count of the times I had to tweak my vimrc to make it fit. Although, it was nothing major like going from one DE to another.

Hope this helps. Take the plunge and enjoy smile

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#23 2012-06-13 23:52:28

2ManyDogs
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 2,798

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

pe7er wrote:

The only difficulty for me was choosing which base & extra packages to install during the initial installation.
I decided to install only the recommended ones, and install everything else later on.

Always a wise choice...

Arch wiki wrote:

Select Packages
Select Packages will let you select the packages you wish to install from the CD, USB or your NET mirror. First, you are prompted to select a bootloader package (the bootloader will be configured later on in the "Install Bootloader" stage). After this, you can select package groups from which you'd generally like to install packages, then fine-tune your coarse selection by (de)selecting individual packages from the groups you have chosen using the space bar. It is recommended that you install all the "base" packages, but not anything else at this point. The only exception to this rule is installing any packages you need for setting up Internet connectivity.

It's really not that hard...

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-06-14 00:00:43)

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#24 2012-06-14 00:02:07

Allan
Member
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,904
Website

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

One thing to note is that the ArchBang team provide (or at least used to provide...) step by step instructions on how to set-up openbox like they do from an Arch base. So it is relatively easy to set this up.

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#25 2012-06-14 07:18:14

pe7er
Member
From: Nijmegen, Netherlands
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 45
Website

Re: Difference between Arch & Archbang (Arch + Openbox)?

fatboy wrote:

pe7er, I found that instead of worrying about what packages to installed from the outset, it was better to let the system evolve with your need. For eg. one day I realized my graphics performance was not up to the mark, so I ended up downgrading xorg and installing catalyst. I have lost count of the times I had to tweak my vimrc to make it fit. Although, it was nothing major like going from one DE to another.

Hope this helps. Take the plunge and enjoy smile

Yes, it does. Thanks!


Peter Martin - Joomla Open Source CMS specialist www.db8.nl
OS: Arch Linux | Arch Linux ARM | Debian | Ubuntu
Toys;-) Raspberry Pi | SheevaPlug | PogoPlug

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