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#1 2014-03-13 13:11:03

ezzetabi
Member
Registered: 2006-08-27
Posts: 941

Why ed is not in the base group?

ed is the standard editor, I know it is hardly used nowadays but still it is so strange... What is the reason of not including it?

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#2 2014-03-13 13:18:46

graysky
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From: /run/user/1000
Registered: 2008-12-01
Posts: 8,524
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Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

Maybe because:

ezzetabi wrote:

I know it is hardly used nowadays


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#3 2014-03-13 13:42:59

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,428

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

It once was in base-devel https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit … 52441b859b

https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/18718

Last edited by karol (2014-03-13 13:44:22)

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#4 2014-03-13 23:07:09

Allan
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From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,408
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Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

Because it it crap.

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#5 2014-03-14 04:59:28

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,428

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

Allan wrote:

Because it it crap.

Nope, crap is in the AUR ;P

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#6 2014-03-14 06:37:44

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,831

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

Allan wrote:

Because it it crap.

Well if it had a grammar-checker it would still help.


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#7 2014-03-14 08:57:31

sekret
Member
Registered: 2013-07-22
Posts: 203

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

I always thought this "ed is the standard editor" is supposed to be a joke. Is there anybody out there who really uses this? I mean sure, it's very powerful, because sed is, but in what universe would somebody really e.g. write a latex paper with such an editor?!

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#8 2014-03-14 09:35:22

jakobcreutzfeldt
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,033

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

sekret wrote:

I always thought this "ed is the standard editor" is supposed to be a joke. Is there anybody out there who really uses this? I mean sure, it's very powerful, because sed is, but in what universe would somebody really e.g. write a latex paper with such an editor?!

It is a joke. I think* that it's required for POSIX compliance but nobody actually uses it. Anyway, it's just a trump card in the editor wars. "Who cares if you think vim is superior? ed is the standard editor."

*I'm too lazy to actually verify this claim.

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#9 2014-03-14 10:37:55

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 2,151

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

sekret wrote:

I always thought this "ed is the standard editor" is supposed to be a joke. Is there anybody out there who really uses this? I mean sure, it's very powerful, because sed is, but in what universe would somebody really e.g. write a latex paper with such an editor?!

It has become a joke, but it wasn't always so.
Sometimes the manpage description starts with "Ed is the standard text editor.", the ed command is defined in POSIX 1003.2
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EdIsTheStandardTextEditor
PS: vi(m) uses some ideas from ed, but is modernized for faster connections where you can update the whole screen efficiently and not only lines.

Last edited by progandy (2014-03-14 10:43:13)

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#10 2014-03-14 11:10:22

Trilby
Forum Moderator
From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 13,805
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Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

sekret wrote:

Is there anybody out there who really uses this? I

I do.

Primarily I use vim.  But ed has its uses.  Not the least of which is if you tinker with ed for a while, you're use of vim may become much more efficient.  All the benefits of vim are sometimes hard to realize when there are essentially a set of training wheels that allows users to stick with more familiar but less efficient 'gui-like' interaction.

Of course none of this supports ed  being in the base group.


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#11 2014-03-14 19:06:29

sekret
Member
Registered: 2013-07-22
Posts: 203

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

When I first stumbled upon ed reading this quote I thought "Wow, this must be hell of an editor!!", installed it and was shocked. After some research I began to understand what ed really is. Few seconds later it was off my hd. So maybe it wouldn't be a complete waste of time to actually play with it? E.g. do the vimtutor with ed? wink

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#12 2014-03-15 09:15:06

ezzetabi
Member
Registered: 2006-08-27
Posts: 941

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

If you want actually to try ed, do an alias like this:

alias 'ed'='rlwrap ed -p": "'

"because is crap" is quite an argument; however it applies to other stuff too... I guess lots of people would say the same about vi vs vim or emacs... still vi and ed should be there for POSIX compliance (and avoiding discriminating remarks)

But I get the point, thanks everyone!

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#13 2014-03-15 09:28:16

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,408
Website

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

We don't care much about POSIX compliance...

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#14 2014-03-15 09:53:23

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 2,151

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

You set up your own installation. ed is in the core repository so it is very easy to add if you want a fully POSIX compliant system. The base-installation is just that: A base to build on.

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#15 2014-03-15 09:56:30

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,428

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

If you installed the whole base group, make sure you remove all the crap they put in there and keep just the good stuff.

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#16 2014-03-17 17:44:03

Konkorde
Member
Registered: 2014-03-17
Posts: 23

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

I think that ed as a scripting language lasted longer than ed as an interactive editor.

I was disappointed that neither emacs (understandably) nor ed were available during the install (I can't remember if I even tried vi, but I don't know it well enough to use without a functioning Web browser, which I didn't have either).  I got the job done with grep, but was a little surpised that everything worked without ed.

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#17 2014-03-17 18:30:47

brain0
Developer
From: Aachen - Germany
Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 1,382

Re: Why ed is not in the base group?

On the install medium, simply enter

# pacman -Sy emacs ed

once you are online. This will install them into the live system (in memory).

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