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#1 2014-05-16 07:30:53

Borisdatzar
Member
Registered: 2014-05-16
Posts: 5

MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Hi,

I am running Arch with kernel 3.14.4-1. I use a MacBookAir6,2 which has an Intel graphics card. My computer runs fine if I do not plug in the Thunderbold display. However, if I plug it in and restart it works but the temperature begins to rise fast and reaches around 103 degrees Celsius.

Has anyone had the same problem? Does anyone know how it can be fixed? Thank you for your help.

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#2 2014-05-19 19:44:32

xvzf
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 86

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Is the fan running? If yes, have you overclocked any component?
Maybe the thunderbold display is too much for the intel GPU.
Does the problem appear when operating on MacOS X too?

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#3 2014-05-20 02:03:21

Borisdatzar
Member
Registered: 2014-05-16
Posts: 5

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

The is running at full blast, and I have not overclocked anything as far as I know. In MacOS X everything is running smoothly...

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#4 2014-05-20 03:13:32

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 19,740

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

What is getting hot?  Are the CPUs running at 100%, or is it the GPU?  Anything interesting in the journal or in the output of dmesg?


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#5 2014-05-20 13:20:53

xvzf
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 86

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Maybe it even has not to do anything with cpu/gpu usage..
To me it sounds like a voltage regulator is overheating or something like that...
The cooling should be okay, the CPU can produce only a limited TDP as well as the GPU, so maybe the Kernel has to send a message like "additional voltage regulators for thunderbold on" to make thinks work...
This would be an answer why it is overheating: The voltage regulators can't handle the current and get very hot. And I mean very very hot.. I recently had an issue on my quadrocopter, and the solder wich connected the voltage regulator to the board was fluid!!

It would be great to detect wich temperatures raise to localize the problem.
I don't know much about Apple hardware, maybe you install the "lm-sensors" package, detect sensors by calling "sensors_detect" and then post the output of "sensors" here?

Cheers

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#6 2014-05-20 15:26:09

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 19,740

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

I am pretty certain that the Macbook uses buck converters rather than linear regulators.  With efficiencies much better than 90%, the heat is not coming from the conversion losses.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#7 2014-05-22 02:06:40

Borisdatzar
Member
Registered: 2014-05-16
Posts: 5

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Thank you for helping me. The CPU is running at around 7%, so no problem there. The output of sensors is
applesmc-isa-0300
Adapter: ISA adapter
Exhaust  :   2743 RPM  (min = 2000 RPM, max = 6500 RPM)
TB0T:         +36.2°C 
TB1T:         +36.2°C 
TB2T:         +31.0°C 
TC0C:         +99.5°C 
TC0D:         +98.2°C 
TC0E:         +97.5°C 
TC0F:         +99.0°C 
TC0P:         +79.2°C 
TC1C:        +100.0°C 
TC2C:         +99.0°C 
TCGC:         +91.0°C 
TCSA:         +94.0°C 
TCXC:         +99.5°C 
TH0A:         +52.8°C 
TH0B:         +54.8°C 
TH0J:        -127.0°C 
TH0O:        -127.0°C 
TH0a:         +52.8°C 
TH0b:         +54.8°C 
TH0c:        -127.0°C 
TH0x:         +54.8°C 
THSP:         +52.0°C 
TM0P:         +65.8°C 
TPCD:         +84.0°C 
Ta0P:         +64.2°C 
Th1H:         +44.5°C 
Tm0P:         +52.8°C 
Tm1P:         +63.5°C 
Ts0P:         +30.8°C 
Ts0S:         +43.0°C 

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0: +100.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)
Core 0:         +99.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)
Core 1:        +100.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)

pkg-temp-0-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:       +100.0°C 

Overtime, the fans will speed up and bring the temperature down by 5 degrees or so.

I can't see anything relevant in the journal or dmesg.

I am not 100% how to check what my GPU is doing, but the output of intel_gpu_top is:


render clock: unknown  sampler clock: unknown
                   render busy:   1%: ▎                                      render space: 0/131072
                bitstream busy:   0%:                                     bitstream space: 0/131072
                  blitter busy:   1%: ▎                                     blitter space: 0/131072

                          task  percent busy
                           GAM:   0%:                         vert fetch: 0 (0/sec)
                            SF:   0%:                         prim fetch: 0 (0/sec)
                          GAFS:   0%:                      VS invocations: 265524 (0/sec)
                            VS:   0%:                      GS invocations: 0 (0/sec)
                            DS:   0%:                           GS prims: 0 (0/sec)
                            VF:   0%:                      CL invocations: 132686 (0/sec)
                            HS:   0%:                           CL prims: 132776 (0/sec)
                                                           PS invocations: 2868558092 (0/sec)
                                                           PS depth pass: 2811348209 (0/sec)



Any other advice? Thank you.

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#8 2014-05-22 04:15:55

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 19,740

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Your cores are screaming hot.  I bet they are both running at or near 100%.  Run htop or top and see which processes are running away.  You may want to have htop running prior to and after plugging in the display.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#9 2014-05-22 05:55:23

Borisdatzar
Member
Registered: 2014-05-16
Posts: 5

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

I ran htop and sensors and took a screenshot:

http://i.imgur.com/dS2P5bR.png

As you can see  the CPU is not loaded and yet the cores are overheating. I simply switched on the computer with the thunderbolt plugged in, it booted fine, and a few minutes later it began to heat up (without me doing anything at all) and I took the screenshot. If I boot without the thunderbolt plugged in, the cores do not overheat.

Any ideas?? Thank you for your help!

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#10 2014-05-22 13:04:40

xvzf
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 86

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Hi

Just saw your temps, I don't think the CPU gets so hot at this load... But I see other components with extremely high temperatures.. Maybe the components wich affect the temperature sensors starting with TC* are heating up the cpu cooler... I don't think they have a own cooler.

Can you take a screenshot with no thunderbold too?

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#11 2014-05-22 13:08:33

xvzf
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 86

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

I just searched at digikey to components with the name of the high temperature indexes

If it's true, that TC1C http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de … ND/4836490 is an AC/DC converter (I don't know why it's in there so I assume it's not this component), this could be confirm my presumtion

To the CPU Temperaturs: About 90-95 is normal by Intel Haswell, my i7-4702MQ reaches the same temperatures

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#12 2014-05-22 13:10:07

xvzf
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 86

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Sorry I forgot another thing..

Does it only appear with your thunderbold display? Or with other thunderbold devices too=

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#13 2014-05-22 15:25:23

xvzf
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 86

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

And maybe you can send us the full dmesg?

Just call "dmesg > kernel.log" and upload kernel.log at pastbin or somewhere else

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#14 2014-05-26 08:19:32

Borisdatzar
Member
Registered: 2014-05-16
Posts: 5

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Here is what sensors and htop show without the thunderbolt:

https://i.imgur.com/ud7R7QB.png

The thunderbolt display is the only thunderbolt display I have, so I don't know if it will overheat with others.

Do you want to paste dmesg with the thunderbolt plugged in or without?

Thanks for all the help.

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#15 2014-05-28 15:51:56

xvzf
Member
Registered: 2014-05-18
Posts: 86

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Hello,
Without the Thunderbolt display everything seems okay, a litte high but it's an ultrabook so I think it's okay.

Both, one with Thunderbolt plugged in and without, so we can compare the output

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#16 2014-06-07 20:15:41

brainwave
Member
From: India
Registered: 2014-06-04
Posts: 40

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Could you do a cat /sys/class/drm/card0/gt_cur_freq_mhz when your GPU is plugged in? Also, if you do an echo 200>/sys/class/drm/card0/gt_max_freq_mhz after plugging in your thunderbold, does the temperature drop a bit say after 2-3 minutes(If it is safe to run it for that long)?

Have you installed xf86-video-intel package for the macbook? I have a very same machine but no thunderbold display, unfortunately.

Last edited by brainwave (2014-06-07 20:32:21)

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#17 2014-06-14 19:46:08

nadnad
Member
Registered: 2014-06-14
Posts: 3

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

I am not an Arch user (apologize), but I'm having the same issue under Ubuntu/Mint: MacBook Air + Thunderbolt display gets quite hot quickly, which is not the case under MacOS. The result of cat /sys/class/drm/card0/gt_cur_freq_mhz is 200, whether the display is pluged in or not.

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#18 2014-06-16 20:26:34

brainwave
Member
From: India
Registered: 2014-06-04
Posts: 40

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Does your fan run as it is supposed to? High speed to cool your GPU?

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#19 2014-06-17 12:49:22

nadnad
Member
Registered: 2014-06-14
Posts: 3

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

Yes, the fan starts and I don't think the temperature reaches any danger level, and that's the reason why on the few threads I have read so far people usually reply that it's not an issue. But come on! this machine remains dead cold whatever you plug under Mac OS, and as long as you don't plug the display under Linux; I need to really exploit the machine (like video encoding for a few minutes) to trigger the fan. So even if it might not be dangerous for the hardware, there is indeed an issue. Anyway, I'm returning the display to Apple today: this thing is gorgeous, but in the end it runs fine only under Mac OS, which (in my opinion) is a crap OS. I guess it'll take a long time before this runs properly under Linux, as neither Apple, nor Intel seem to be interested in the problem. That's probably also the end of my interest in Apple products: hardware is splendid and usually runs fine under Linux, but with severe limitations. In the end my MacBook Air will just remain a simple laptop and I'll have to search for something else to put on my desktop.

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#20 2014-06-18 06:58:14

brainwave
Member
From: India
Registered: 2014-06-04
Posts: 40

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

nadnad, your reply saddens me. I understand your frustration completely. I am sure an issue like this can be solved if few of us can come together, physically meet up sit at your macbook air, and continue fiddling with it and find a solution. On forums, especially for a newbie user like me, it is impossible to find out what might be the cause of the issue, can only try random things until I find a solution. It is a queer issue as I was thinking of buying a thunderbolt display myself. Apple hardware is indeed splendid, I wish 1 other PC maker produced same quality of hardware at comparable price, but that is not the case (again a point only mac users will understand). But, thoughts aside, so far my experience on my Arch on Mac has been smooth, except a few simple issues.

What did you mean by saying it will remain a simple laptop?

Second question - how did you simply return a perfectly functional thunderbolt monitor? Does apple simply allow it? I am in India, likely apple sales guys will frown upon this but if it is Apple policy to allow it, I can make them take it back. Can you purchase a product from apple and simply return it?

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#21 2014-06-21 05:18:40

nadnad
Member
Registered: 2014-06-14
Posts: 3

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

I do feel sadness too: I love the MacBook Air; it's the most expensive but clearly the best computer I ever bought; and it does work flawlessly on Linux (apart from minor issues that are easily fixed by following instructions on forums). But I have the feeling that this thunderbolt problem has not caught the attention of sufficiently skilled people yet, so might require quite some time to be fixed. Thus I'm unable to connect my laptop to an external display in order to use it for work, thus my statement that it'll remain "simple". I'm going to try now buying a DVI or HDMI display and try an adapter from thunderbolt. I'll probably hit the same issue, but at least I can then find a desktop to connect to the display, so it won't be a waste of money. Regarding Apple return policy: I was extremely pleased to discover, right after I realized that the display was useless to me, that you can return an Apple product within 14 days. This holds in France; I'm not sure for other countries. Another good point for Apple. It's a pity their OSs are so terrible, otherwise I could say I found perfection on earth (ah actually the keyboards layouts suck too, with so many keys missing, like Insert or Delete; but it's easy to buy a usb keyboard).

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#22 2014-06-23 03:06:58

brainwave
Member
From: India
Registered: 2014-06-04
Posts: 40

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

nadnad wrote:

I love the MacBook Air; it's the most expensive but clearly the best computer I ever bought; and it does work flawlessly on Linux (apart from minor issues that are easily fixed by following instructions on forums).

I agree. It is simply 'brilliant' hardware. It is something so subtle, actually that only those who own it or use it for long enough will be able to appreciate fully. For the first time, I am 'happy' each time I walk into my study with this machine on the table top.

I'm going to try now buying a DVI or HDMI display and try an adapter from thunderbolt. I'll probably hit the same issue, but at least I can then find a desktop to connect to the display, so it won't be a waste of money.

I highly doubt you will face same issue. Users have successfully connected to external monitor with thunderbolt->hdmi adapters on the macbook air, under arch. May I suggest trying at some friend's house or something first, after buying the adapter? HDMI monitors should be easily available at acquaintances house.

Regarding Apple return policy: I was extremely pleased to discover, right after I realized that the display was useless to me, that you can return an Apple product within 14 days.

Thank you for this info. I will first contact apple customer support, get a statement from them confirming this in India, then go to store.

Do post your experience of the external monitor via thunderbolt -> hdmi, if convinient!

Adieu! ( I think that's French for goodbye? )

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#23 2014-08-02 13:27:43

Fixed
Member
Registered: 2005-08-09
Posts: 210

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

I just posted related problem in https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=185158


XFCE4 under Arch on Honor MagicBook

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#24 2014-08-02 15:47:41

frigaut
Member
From: Canberra, Australia
Registered: 2009-05-10
Posts: 215
Website

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

My wife has a MBA early 2012 (or late 2011) and she has the same problem under OsX when plugin the thunderbold display (but in her case only when she plugs it after suspend). The fan go crazy (while the CPU load is reasonable) and eventually she has to reboot the thing because the maxed out fan is getting on her nerves. She is up to date with firmware updates and OsX updates.

So, just saying that this seems to not only happen with linux. That might be related to a H/W issue.

Last edited by frigaut (2014-08-02 15:48:29)


Archer since 03/2009 - AUR packages

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#25 2014-08-03 14:38:51

radiomist
Member
From: superposicion
Registered: 2009-11-27
Posts: 64

Re: MacBook Air overheating when used with Thunderbolt Display

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