Arch Package Management?

ncage · 2014-10-16 03:15:23

Hello everyone. Sorry people long post. Trying to get some of my thoughts out

My background:
I'll preface this post with a little background info. I've been a "dabbler" in linux for quite a few years. I started with Slackware back in the day when you had to order it on a bunch of CDs. I've play with a lot of distros. Everything from Gentoo to Ubuntu. Unfortunately i always came back to windows because of software needs. Today its much easier to switch because so much software is cloud enabled. Like so many others i use windows because i have to not because i want to. I dislike windows and most of the software that comes out of Redmond (though they do have "some" good software). I've just been bitten to much lately by some of the flaky behavior you will see with a lot of windows system.

I wouldn't consider myself a newbie but i'm far from a competent linux user. I just know stuff

The few linux servers i have in home i've been damn impressed with. Most windows machines i have need care & feeding. Even with minimal systems. I setup a debian server 2 years ago and the think will just never die (i will know immediately because i loose all internet connectivity if it does). Other than power failure the thing just has never gone down.

My needs:
Of course a general computer device as it is for most people. One of the other big reasons i'm coming back to linux is freedom. I'm a developer by trade (.Net Programmer to be exact) and lot of the cool and new stuff comes out first in the *nix area. Eventually Microsoft might bring it to windows eventually but usually its half-baked (node). I can now use all the NoSQL, Node, Ruby, Python, Django, Erlang, Docker, and anything else i want and i don't to run a honky bloated and clunky visual studio that takes a super computer to be fast

Why Arch:
Well i'm intrigued primarily because of two reasons. First rolling updates. Its awesome you essentially never have to upgrade your system just as long as it doesn't sacrifice stability. Also if i REALLY want to learn linux well i figure arch is a perfect fit since it seems like they took the training wheels off .

What i'm most comfortable with at this point:
Definitely debian based systems whether it be debian, ubuntu, ect. lately i have been using Lubuntu a lot. I'm a lot more familiar with their layout and package management.

Primary Concerns / questions:
My primary concern is with package management. Most of the software you don't find in repositories out there is either in a *.deb *.rpm format. Does arch have the ability to install a *.deb or a *.rpm package as a last resource or do you essentially have to try to build with source? I know some software doesn't have the source so what happens when you find something that doesn't have source and isn't in the repository and only has *.deb & *.rpm files? For example i prefer google chrome over chromium but it only comes in *.deb & *.rpm files and it doesn't have source. I'm sure i will find other examples in the future . Hopefully arch repository will have most of the software i want though.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Last edited by ncage (2014-10-16 03:17:09)

fukawi2 · 2014-10-16 03:22:44

ncage wrote:

Does arch have the ability to install a *.deb or a *.rpm package as a last resource or do you essentially have to try to build with source?

There are quite a number of packages in the AUR that re-package .rpm or .deb files for these instances.

ncage wrote:

I know some software doesn't have the source so what happens when you find something that doesn't have source and isn't in the repository and only has *.deb & *.rpm files? ..... Hopefully arch repository will have most of the software i want though.

You may be surprised at the expanse of the packages in the AUR. Even if what you want isn't available, there are *ample* PKGBUILD's available to use as a 'template' for writing your own PKGBUILD.

The best suggestion is to spin up a VM (VirtualBox, KVM, whatever) and give it a try. You're not likely to get everything "right" the first time anyway, so experimentation in a VM is the best way to start before hosing your hardware.

mcmillan · 2014-10-16 04:20:50

as fukawi2 says the the AUR I've been impressed in how much is already available, and once you get a feel for PKGBUILDs creating a new package from source tends to be pretty trivial (and definitely simpler than trying to repackage a *.deb or *.rpm, though as he said these type of packages also exist)

In case you weren't already aware, the wiki is a good source of information, and should probably be your first stop when trying to figure something out. Since you seem concerned about package management, these might be a good place to get started.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Makepkg
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PKGBUILD
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR

drcouzelis · 2014-10-16 11:56:46

ncage wrote:

My primary concern is with package management. Most of the software you don't find in repositories out there is either in a *.deb *.rpm format. Does arch have the ability to install a *.deb or a *.rpm package as a last resource or do you essentially have to try to build with source? I know some software doesn't have the source so what happens when you find something that doesn't have source and isn't in the repository and only has *.deb & *.rpm files?

You don't need to install from DEB files or from RPM files or from source code. Most of what you need will be in the official repositories. Everything else will be in the AUR, which is the official-unofficial place to get everything else. The repos have the pre-built packages. The AUR has everything you need to easily built packages (like Gentoo "ebuild" files).

ncage wrote:

For example i prefer google chrome over chromium but it only comes in *.deb & *.rpm files and it doesn't have source.

Here are the Arch Linux packages for Chrome, Chrome (beta), and Chrome (dev branch). All super easy to install in Arch Linux.

ncage wrote:

Hopefully arch repository will have most of the software i want though.

I dare you to find any Linux software that you want to use that doesn't already have a package ready for you to install from the AUR. If you can, then I'll personally make a package for it.

Trilby · 2014-10-16 12:11:53

drcouzelis wrote:

I dare you to find any Linux software that you want to use that doesn't already have a package ready for you to install from the AUR. If you can, then I'll personally make a package for it.

Indeed - we often have the opposite problem - I dare you to find any linux software that you want to use that doesn't already have multiple redundant packages in the AUR

EDIT: note due to how the AUR works, this isn't a problem at all for a user of those packages. It's just a bit wasteful and aggravates my OCD

Last edited by Trilby (2014-10-16 12:13:12)

Scimmia · 2014-10-16 14:34:09

haha, be careful there. I recently ran into a Python lib that Debian packages that the author abandoned in 1999 and they've been limping along ever since. It was required for some other software I would have liked to run, but refused to packages something like that. The point is that there is a whole lot of very old crap in Debian.

karol · 2014-10-16 17:03:59

Scimmia wrote:

The point is that there is a whole lot of very old crap in Debian.

As we all know, Debian is aviable in three versions: rusty, stale, broken ;-)

drcouzelis · 2014-10-16 17:18:49

karol wrote:

As we all know, Debian is aviable in three versions: rusty, stale, broken

The Arch Linux repos are not much better...

Kopkins · 2014-10-17 03:35:07

drcouzelis wrote:

karol wrote:
As we all know, Debian is aviable in three versions: rusty, stale, broken
The Arch Linux repos are not much better...

But we're still _much_ better than most. And I've never run into debilitating issues when using the standard repos.

ncage · 2014-10-17 21:42:54

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies. Sorry the delay in me getting back with everyone. Just been busy. I think i'm going to give it a shot.

That said i know a lot of people don't like debian because of the age of things but i know if i was going to pick a distro for a production server it would either have to be debian or centos

dmartins · 2014-10-18 05:08:48

Hi ncage,

If you come across an application that is not in the official repositories, or AUR:

- Building packages from source is usually quite straightforward. Wrapping this process up into a PKGBUILD file that makepkg can understand doesn't take much more work. Anyone can contribute PKGBUILD files to the AUR.
- We have a subforum for PKGBUILD requests: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=38
- Join our IRC channel #archlinux on irc.freenode.net if you get stuck and want some realtime help

Welcome to Arch - Enjoy your stay!

Arch Linux

#1 2014-10-16 03:15:23

Arch Package Management?

#2 2014-10-16 03:22:44

Re: Arch Package Management?

#3 2014-10-16 04:20:50

Re: Arch Package Management?

#4 2014-10-16 11:56:46

Re: Arch Package Management?

#5 2014-10-16 12:11:53

Re: Arch Package Management?

#6 2014-10-16 14:34:09

Re: Arch Package Management?

#7 2014-10-16 17:03:59

Re: Arch Package Management?

#8 2014-10-16 17:18:49

Re: Arch Package Management?

#9 2014-10-17 03:35:07

Re: Arch Package Management?

#10 2014-10-17 21:42:54

Re: Arch Package Management?

#11 2014-10-18 05:08:48

Re: Arch Package Management?

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