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#1 2016-02-11 21:03:27

timfayz
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From: Kazan, Russia
Registered: 2016-01-14
Posts: 59
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Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

I try to figure out if I can use both packages (iw and wireless_tools) at one time. I like the way iw controlls the interfaces and I want to stick with it (it seems to me more intutive), but there is one package (i3status of i3 WM) that depends on wireless_tools, that's why I can't delete it.
So the 1st question is: Won't they conflict to each other?
The 2nd: Should I stick with iw if possible?
There is a quote from Arch wiki:

wireless_tools - currently deprecated, but still widely supported.

Last edited by timfayz (2016-02-11 21:05:24)

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#2 2016-02-11 21:15:43

ewaller
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From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 20,348

Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

They will not conflict with each other.
Wireless_tools is deprecated in favor of tools that support nl80211

Not all wireless devices and drivers support nl80211, so the older Wireless_tools are still required.
Try to avoid new things that depend on deprecated stuff.  Existing stuff (i3status) are fine.

Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
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#3 2016-02-11 21:18:37

timfayz
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From: Kazan, Russia
Registered: 2016-01-14
Posts: 59
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Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

But why they aren't conflict? What exactly they configure underneath?

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#4 2016-02-11 21:41:29

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
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Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

The packages certainly have no reason to conflict: they don't install files with the same name.

Whether using both of them will cause conflicts is a separate question.  Using multiple networking daemons generally will - but in this case I think the answer is still that there'd be no problem.  These aren't daemon processes, just userspace tools that interact with the kernel.  Using both of them at the exact same moment might do odd things (maybe - more likely one will just block if a resource can't be shared) but there'd be no more problem here than using two instances of the same tool at the same exact time.

"UNIX is simple and coherent" - Dennis Ritchie; "GNU's Not Unix" - Richard Stallman

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#5 2016-02-11 21:47:22

ewaller
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From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 20,348

Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

They are both user space tools that control the hardware.  You can use either to read status, and you can use either to control the hardware. 
wireless-tools use ioctl functions through the device node (I think).  That has been replaced by nl80211 and netlink

Here is a pretty good stack overflow article.

A more practical argument is that they are both on my system and they cohabitate nicely:

ewaller@turing ~ [1]1003 %sudo iw phy0 info
Wiphy phy0
        max # scan SSIDs: 20
        max scan IEs length: 425 bytes
        max # sched scan SSIDs: 20
        max # match sets: 11
        Retry short limit: 7
        Retry long limit: 4
        Coverage class: 0 (up to 0m)
        Device supports RSN-IBSS.
        Device supports AP-side u-APSD.
        Supported Ciphers:
                * WEP40 (00-0f-ac:1)
                * WEP104 (00-0f-ac:5)
                * TKIP (00-0f-ac:2)
                * CCMP (00-0f-ac:4)
                * CMAC (00-0f-ac:6)
        Available Antennas: TX 0 RX 0
        Supported interface modes:
                 * IBSS
                 * managed
                 * AP
                 * AP/VLAN
                 * monitor
                 * P2P-client
                 * P2P-GO
                 * P2P-device
        Band 1:
                Capabilities: 0x1162
                        HT20/HT40
                        Static SM Power Save
                        RX HT20 SGI
                        RX HT40 SGI
                        RX STBC 1-stream
                        Max AMSDU length: 3839 bytes
                        DSSS/CCK HT40
                Maximum RX AMPDU length 65535 bytes (exponent: 0x003)
                Minimum RX AMPDU time spacing: 4 usec (0x05)
                HT Max RX data rate: 150 Mbps
                HT TX/RX MCS rate indexes supported: 0-7
                Bitrates (non-HT):
                        * 1.0 Mbps
                        * 2.0 Mbps (short preamble supported)
                        * 5.5 Mbps (short preamble supported)
                        * 11.0 Mbps (short preamble supported)
                        * 6.0 Mbps
                        * 9.0 Mbps
                        * 12.0 Mbps
                        * 18.0 Mbps
                        * 24.0 Mbps
                        * 36.0 Mbps
                        * 48.0 Mbps
                        * 54.0 Mbps
                Frequencies:
                        * 2412 MHz [1] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2417 MHz [2] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2422 MHz [3] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2427 MHz [4] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2432 MHz [5] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2437 MHz [6] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2442 MHz [7] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2447 MHz [8] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2452 MHz [9] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2457 MHz [10] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2462 MHz [11] (22.0 dBm)
                        * 2467 MHz [12] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 2472 MHz [13] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
        Band 2:
                Capabilities: 0x1162
                        HT20/HT40
                        Static SM Power Save
                        RX HT20 SGI
                        RX HT40 SGI
                        RX STBC 1-stream
                        Max AMSDU length: 3839 bytes
                        DSSS/CCK HT40
                Maximum RX AMPDU length 65535 bytes (exponent: 0x003)
                Minimum RX AMPDU time spacing: 4 usec (0x05)
                HT Max RX data rate: 150 Mbps
                HT TX/RX MCS rate indexes supported: 0-7
                VHT Capabilities (0x33807120):
                        Max MPDU length: 3895
                        Supported Channel Width: neither 160 nor 80+80
                        short GI (80 MHz)
                        SU Beamformee
                        RX antenna pattern consistency
                        TX antenna pattern consistency
                VHT RX MCS set:
                        1 streams: MCS 0-9
                        2 streams: not supported
                        3 streams: not supported
                        4 streams: not supported
                        5 streams: not supported
                        6 streams: not supported
                        7 streams: not supported
                        8 streams: not supported
                VHT RX highest supported: 0 Mbps
                VHT TX MCS set:
                        1 streams: MCS 0-9
                        2 streams: not supported
                        3 streams: not supported
                        4 streams: not supported
                        5 streams: not supported
                        6 streams: not supported
                        7 streams: not supported
                        8 streams: not supported
                VHT TX highest supported: 0 Mbps
                Bitrates (non-HT):
                        * 6.0 Mbps
                        * 9.0 Mbps
                        * 12.0 Mbps
                        * 18.0 Mbps
                        * 24.0 Mbps
                        * 36.0 Mbps
                        * 48.0 Mbps
                        * 54.0 Mbps
                Frequencies:
                        * 5180 MHz [36] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5200 MHz [40] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5220 MHz [44] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5240 MHz [48] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5260 MHz [52] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5280 MHz [56] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5300 MHz [60] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5320 MHz [64] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5500 MHz [100] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5520 MHz [104] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5540 MHz [108] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5560 MHz [112] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5580 MHz [116] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5600 MHz [120] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5620 MHz [124] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5640 MHz [128] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5660 MHz [132] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5680 MHz [136] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5700 MHz [140] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5720 MHz [144] (22.0 dBm) (no IR, radar detection)
                          DFS state: usable (for 1618616 sec)
                          DFS CAC time: 0 ms
                        * 5745 MHz [149] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5765 MHz [153] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5785 MHz [157] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5805 MHz [161] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
                        * 5825 MHz [165] (22.0 dBm) (no IR)
        Supported commands:
                 * new_interface
                 * set_interface
                 * new_key
                 * start_ap
                 * new_station
                 * new_mpath
                 * set_mesh_config
                 * set_bss
                 * authenticate
                 * associate
                 * deauthenticate
                 * disassociate
                 * join_ibss
                 * join_mesh
                 * remain_on_channel
                 * set_tx_bitrate_mask
                 * frame
                 * frame_wait_cancel
                 * set_wiphy_netns
                 * set_channel
                 * set_wds_peer
                 * start_sched_scan
                 * probe_client
                 * set_noack_map
                 * register_beacons
                 * start_p2p_device
                 * set_mcast_rate
                 * channel_switch
                 * set_qos_map
                 * add_tx_ts
                 * connect
                 * disconnect
        Supported TX frame types:
                 * IBSS: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
                 * managed: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
                 * AP: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
                 * AP/VLAN: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
                 * mesh point: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
                 * P2P-client: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
                 * P2P-GO: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
                 * P2P-device: 0x00 0x10 0x20 0x30 0x40 0x50 0x60 0x70 0x80 0x90 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0 0xe0 0xf0
        Supported RX frame types:
                 * IBSS: 0x40 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0
                 * managed: 0x40 0xd0
                 * AP: 0x00 0x20 0x40 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0
                 * AP/VLAN: 0x00 0x20 0x40 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0
                 * mesh point: 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0
                 * P2P-client: 0x40 0xd0
                 * P2P-GO: 0x00 0x20 0x40 0xa0 0xb0 0xc0 0xd0
                 * P2P-device: 0x40 0xd0
        WoWLAN support:
                 * wake up on disconnect
                 * wake up on magic packet
                 * wake up on pattern match, up to 20 patterns of 16-128 bytes,
                   maximum packet offset 0 bytes
                 * can do GTK rekeying
                 * wake up on GTK rekey failure
                 * wake up on EAP identity request
                 * wake up on 4-way handshake
                 * wake up on rfkill release
                 * wake up on network detection, up to 11 match sets
                 * wake up on TCP connection
        software interface modes (can always be added):
                 * AP/VLAN
                 * monitor
        valid interface combinations:
                 * #{ managed } <= 1, #{ AP, P2P-client, P2P-GO } <= 1, #{ P2P-device } <= 1,
                   total <= 3, #channels <= 2
        HT Capability overrides:
                 * MCS: ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff
                 * maximum A-MSDU length
                 * supported channel width
                 * short GI for 40 MHz
                 * max A-MPDU length exponent
                 * min MPDU start spacing
        Device supports TX status socket option.
        Device supports HT-IBSS.
        Device supports SAE with AUTHENTICATE command
        Device supports low priority scan.
        Device supports scan flush.
        Device supports per-vif TX power setting
        P2P GO supports CT window setting
        P2P GO supports opportunistic powersave setting
        Driver supports a userspace MPM
        Device supports static SMPS
        Device supports dynamic SMPS
        Device supports WMM-AC admission (TSPECs)
        Device supports configuring vdev MAC-addr on create.
ewaller@turing ~ 1004 %sudo iwconfig
wlo1      IEEE 802.11abgn  ESSID:"Woodlyn-hi"
          Mode:Managed  Frequency:5.745 GHz  Access Point: C4:3D:C7:5D:EB:8C
          Bit Rate=150 Mb/s   Tx-Power=22 dBm
          Retry short limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
          Encryption key:off
          Power Management:on
          Link Quality=49/70  Signal level=-61 dBm
          Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
          Tx excessive retries:20  Invalid misc:22577   Missed beacon:0

eno1      no wireless extensions.

lo        no wireless extensions.

ewaller@turing ~ 1005 %

Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#6 2016-02-11 22:33:00

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 30,332
Website

Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

ewaller wrote:

wireless-tools use ioctl functions through the device node (I think).

Correct.  I dug through the code of these pretty thoroughly not too long ago when I was tinkering with my own wireless management tool.

"UNIX is simple and coherent" - Dennis Ritchie; "GNU's Not Unix" - Richard Stallman

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#7 2016-02-12 12:48:54

timfayz
Member
From: Kazan, Russia
Registered: 2016-01-14
Posts: 59
Website

Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

Great! Thank you both and especial for the link to SO:

ewaller wrote:

Here is a pretty good stack overflow article.

I always like such explanations. And here is another moment confuse me: it seems like wpa_supplicant and iw have overlaying purposes. For example, can I remove iw/wireless_tools packages (just hypothetically, because I won't do it anyway:) if I will use only WPA protected access points?

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#8 2016-02-12 12:54:14

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 30,332
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Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

timfayz wrote:

For example, can I remove iw/wireless_tools packages (just hypothetically, because I won't do it anyway:) if I will use only WPA protected access points?

Actually you can remove iw and wireless_tools (I have) regardless.  Wpa_supplicant is very easy to use with open access points as well.  I prefer wpa_supplicant even for open networks as it keeps all wireless settings in one file: wpa_supplicant.conf.  I don't need separate configs and tools for different networks based on their security (or lack-thereof) - just one simple config file, and one easy to use tool for all of my wireless networking.

"UNIX is simple and coherent" - Dennis Ritchie; "GNU's Not Unix" - Richard Stallman

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#9 2016-02-12 12:59:44

timfayz
Member
From: Kazan, Russia
Registered: 2016-01-14
Posts: 59
Website

Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

Hm...that's interesting! And why nobody say it openly at the beginning? (rhetorical question smile)

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#10 2017-04-27 03:14:50

Cakegg
Member
Registered: 2017-04-27
Posts: 4

Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

ewaller wrote:
        valid interface combinations:
                 * #{ managed } <= 1, #{ AP, P2P-client, P2P-GO } <= 1, #{ P2P-device } <= 1,
                   total <= 3, #channels <= 2

I have been looking for this kind (support 2 channels) of wireless device for a long time ...

Would you mind telling me which wireless device and the corresponding driver you are using?

Thanks!

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#11 2017-04-27 13:03:36

WorMzy
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From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 12,603
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Re: Can I use iw and iwconfig/iwlist at the same time?

Cakegg, please read our code of conduct and do not necrobump.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Co … bumping.22

Closing.

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