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#1 2020-08-24 07:01:52

matti666
Member
Registered: 2016-06-17
Posts: 35

why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

First off iwctl is made by  Intel but putting that aside wifi-menu is just easier to use. Iwctl its not that its hard to use but why its unlikely most people will use it after install. One of the first things To be installed is networkmanager. Honestly,the only reason I can see someone using iwctl if they didn't know that networkmanager has nmcli and just switch over to netctl to use wifi-menu.Nmcli is still easier and faster then iwctl. I know because I looked up how to connect to wifi with networkmanager." Oh, that looks easy lets give it a try." It was easier and faster. It was my first time using ether one of the tools.

The only reason I can think is  Intel wireless chips. Is that why?

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#2 2020-08-24 07:13:46

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 30,424
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Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)


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#3 2020-08-24 08:10:02

matti666
Member
Registered: 2016-06-17
Posts: 35

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

really, jasonwryan, really. I literally reported my other post so it could be taken down, because it put it in the wrong spot. Their is no way for me to take down my own post.

Last edited by matti666 (2020-08-24 08:10:38)

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#4 2020-08-24 08:35:23

WorMzy
Forum Moderator
From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
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Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

You did, in the future, however, please wait for the mod team to move the original topic rather than creating a duplicate.


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#5 2020-08-24 09:50:59

sabroad
Member
Registered: 2015-05-24
Posts: 242

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

matti666 wrote:

First off iwctl is made by  Intel but putting that aside wifi-menu is just easier to use.

Apples and Oranges. iwd is a backend (like wpa_supplicant) whereas netctl is a frontend (like NetworkManager).

matti666 wrote:

Iwctl its not that its hard to use but why its unlikely most people will use it after install.

At bare minimum, a backend is required. For WPA the choice is between wpa_supplicant or iwd and both are on the installation ISO: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ne … #Utilities

matti666 wrote:

One of the first things To be installed is networkmanager.

That's fine. You get to choose the frontend: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ne … k_managers


In short, there is no "switch"- you're just comparing apples and oranges.


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#6 2020-08-24 09:53:04

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 7,637
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Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

matti666 wrote:

Honestly,the only reason I can see someone using iwctl if they didn't know that networkmanager has nmcli

Not really — for some users networkmanager would just be pure bloat. NM uses iwd as a backend for wireless connections and has 54 dependencies listed on the package page, iwd by comparison has only 6 dependencies (3 of which are makedepends).

matti666 wrote:

The only reason I can think is  Intel wireless chips. Is that why?

No, iwd works for all wireless chips.

It's probably worth noting that the netctl package has been orphaned and anyway it also used to rely on backend programs for wireless association and IP address assignment — iwd can both connect and assign address all by itself with a minimal footprint.

For more on the inherent advantages of iwd see https://lwn.net/Articles/770991/ & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Q86cphKDo

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#7 2020-08-24 19:31:48

loqs
Member
Registered: 2014-03-06
Posts: 17,140

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

What switch are you referring to?

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#8 2020-08-24 23:41:31

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2014-02-20
Posts: 7,637
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Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

^ The Arch live image no longer has netctl or wifi-menu, the installation guide now advises using iwctl(1) instead.

Expect a flood of new threads from n00bs attempting to follow the various outdated random interweb guides big_smile

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#9 2020-09-24 11:10:09

altaway
Member
Registered: 2020-06-04
Posts: 15

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

I was wondering why my archiso scripts weren't working. Then I realized a few things were deprecated. And now this. I guess getting the feed isn't just an option.

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#10 2020-09-24 13:56:54

Mortimer Houghton
Member
Registered: 2014-09-28
Posts: 85

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

altaway wrote:

I was wondering why my archiso scripts weren't working. Then I realized a few things were deprecated. And now this. I guess getting the feed isn't just an option.

You will probably want to follow one of the mailing lists for archiso changes, probably arch-dev-public.

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#11 2020-09-24 13:59:53

Trilby
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Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 29,371
Website

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

Would that have helped?  I don't see any mention of wifi-menu or netctl in the past several months of that list (at least in message subjects).


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#12 2020-09-24 15:19:48

GaKu999
Member
From: US/Eastern
Registered: 2020-06-21
Posts: 696

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

Trilby wrote:

Would that have helped?  I don't see any mention of wifi-menu or netctl in the past several months of that list (at least in message subjects).

That one got silently deprecated, just poofed away without trace... neutral

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Expect a flood of new threads from n00bs attempting to follow the various outdated random interweb guides big_smile

Aaand bugreports, https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/67388

The switch is okay, IWD is a nice CLI solution for preparing the WLAN connection ASAP, and the instructions are minimal, it even haves an integrated DHCPclient.
And there are fallback tools included as well if IWD is not enough for an exotic connection.

After installation you can use whatever you are more comfortable with, be it the bloaty NM or WPA with dhcpcd. wink


My reposSome snippets

Heisenberg might have been here.

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#13 2020-09-24 15:45:02

nl6720
The Evil Wiki Admin
Registered: 2016-07-02
Posts: 582

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

archiso is developed publicly on https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso .

As for iwd, AFAIK the only thing it doesn't support compared to wpa_supplicant are old devices that only support WEXT but not nl80211.

Last edited by nl6720 (2020-09-24 15:46:39)

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#14 2020-09-24 15:51:56

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 29,371
Website

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

Iwd vs wpa_supplicant is a red herring.  That is not the issue.  There was no switch.  Just netctl was removed.  That's it.

The installation guide now provides guidance on using iwd, but it just as well could have provided guidance on using wpa_supplicant.  If the latter, would there be questions here about a "switch" from netctl to wpa_supplicant?  Netctl is / was a convenience wrapper to other tools, nothing more.  Those other tools are still on the iso.


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#15 2020-09-24 16:07:33

GaKu999
Member
From: US/Eastern
Registered: 2020-06-21
Posts: 696

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

nl6720 wrote:

archiso is developed publicly on https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/archiso

If you can subscribe somehow to receive emails about changes then it's all right, otherwise I imagine someone stalking that repo... neutral
One with mutt and notmuch can just search the mailing list. wink

EDIT: found an atom feed, guess it's time to try a neat CLI feed client...

Trilby wrote:

Iwd vs wpa_supplicant is a red herring.  That is not the issue.  There was no switch.  Just netctl was removed.  That's it.

Yep, it's only a matter of tastes, and the cause of never-ending discussions in certain thread... neutral

True that OP is talking about something else, maybe a tittle change is in order, before marking this as solved, if OP is still here with us...

Last edited by GaKu999 (2020-09-24 16:11:34)


My reposSome snippets

Heisenberg might have been here.

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#16 2020-09-24 16:08:23

nl6720
The Evil Wiki Admin
Registered: 2016-07-02
Posts: 582

Re: why the switch from netctl(wifi-menu) to iwd(iwctl)

Ok, IIRC this is how it happened:

  1. dhcpcd was replaced with systemd-networkd.

  2. This caused issues with the 2020.06.01 ISO since netctl doesn't work with systemd-networkd. systemd-networkd brought network interfaces up which was not what netctl (or dhcpcd) was expecting.

  3. netctl was removed and iwd.service was enabled by default to allow using iwctl as a replacement for wifi-menu.

GaKu999 wrote:

If you can subscribe somehow to receive emails about changes then it's all right, otherwise I imagine someone stalking that repo... neutral
One with mutt and notmuch can just search the mailing list. wink

Once registrations are open, you will be able to watch the project and receive emails of changes.

Just for reference, Arch Linux Release Engineering has an "arch-releng" mailing list and an #archlinux-releng IRC channel on freenode.

Last edited by nl6720 (2020-09-24 16:25:57)

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