so why isn't kde4 in community?

staple · 2008-04-06 14:47:05

as long as e17 is there stability can't be the reason....

Shaika-Dzari · 2008-04-06 15:23:23

Hello!

There are others repo where you can grab kde4.
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=44507
You can also use kdemod4...

Kde4 is under heavy developpement and you can mess your kde3.5.X installation if you have both on your system.

@+

skottish · 2008-04-06 15:58:12

staple wrote:

as long as e17 is there stability can't be the reason....

E17 is stable. KDE 4.0 isn't. Big difference.

xaw · 2008-04-06 16:45:31

E17 the window manager is stable, while work undergoes to add features to the underlying library codebase, like @skottish said. KDE4 is still under development in all aspects.

schivmeister · 2008-04-06 17:06:53

It's because KDE 4 is not a separate KDE offering. It's the new version of KDE, newer than 3 - because it's 4. Nobody's going to replace 3 with 4 as it is now, so it will take some time before it replaces KDE 3 in the repos.

staple · 2008-04-06 23:42:09

so are we going to have to wait until kde4.1 for it to be in the official repos? that's quite a shame, from what i can tell 4.0.3 is already a pretty good 3.5.x replacement. i'm not saying do away with 3.5.x but why not give the user a choice?

and i've run e17, i hope that's not what passes for stable these days

bender02 · 2008-04-07 00:02:55

aww jeez, not another thread about this...

schivmeister · 2008-04-07 04:41:51

err..e17 has been here longer than KDE 4. At some point of time it was awaiting transfer too. You have to understand that KDE is huge, the devs - and particular the KDE maintainer - can't just say "ok it's come let's put it there".

you _are_ given a choice. See Shaika-Dzari's post, #2 from top. Look at KDEmod, you only have to inject one or two lines into pacman.conf to enjoy KDE 4

staple · 2008-04-07 16:41:58

i prefer to use normal repos for my desktop. i've found that it's a bad idea to rely on 3rd party's to maintain a repo you're using for computer you need to be stable. i'll jump on board whenever kde4 is in community, i just hope it's sooner than later

and not to beat a dead horse, it really is fairly stable. aside from the technical issues of actually getting in there (which i understand are formidable) i see no reason to exclude it. it would make a lot of people very happy

Theoden · 2008-04-07 17:01:36

staple wrote:

... i see no reason to exclude it.

Perhaps that's why arch has maintainers and developers - because they have the knowledge and experience to make wiser decisions those users who just want what they want without thought to the broader consequences of releasing it too soon.

staple wrote:

it would make a lot of people very happy

Indeed, it would make a lot of people happy for an hour or so - and then the problems start coming in - "I can't run xxx since the kde4 upgrade" ... "my icons disappeared" ... "my old kde stuff won't work with the new kde" ... etc.

And BINGO! - everyone is unhappy again. "How do I go back?" "Why didn't they test this before releasing it." I for one am glad that wiser heads prevail in such matters - it is one of the reasons archlinux has become and remains a superior linux distribution.

KDE is a big upgrade effecting practically every part of the system. It's not something you release before it's ready.

--Theoden

finferflu · 2008-04-07 17:04:34

As a matter of fact people seem to be *very* happy with KDEmod. Some users have switched to Arch just to enjoy it. So, give it a try before saying it's a bad idea

Theoden · 2008-04-07 17:16:38

finferflu wrote:

As a matter of fact people seem to be *very* happy with KDEmod. Some users have switched to Arch just to enjoy it. So, give it a try before saying it's a bad idea

We're not talking here about kdemod - we're talking about releasing kde4 into the extra repository where it has to be maintained and user problems addressed by the devs and maintainers - whose time is stretched thinly anyway. If they wait to release it until kde4 stablizes (to their satisfaction), then when it is released - it will work better for all users and be less of a headache for the devs.

KDEmod is NOT supported by the devs - so there's a big difference. If you want kde4 that bad, by all means install kdemod. But don't bitch when wiser heads determine that kde4 itself is not ready for the extra repository yet.

--Theoden

finferflu · 2008-04-07 17:20:47

I was only pointing out that while he said it was a bad idea to use 3rd party repositories, a lot of people seem to use and enjoy KDEmod. So if he's looking for a choice, there is a very good one.
An official repository doesn't guarantee stability, and if the KDEmod devs are dedicated, then that's what helps stability along.

Anyway, I understand and share your points, and of course agree on the choice of leaving KDE3 in the official repository until KDE4 is a good reliable replacement.

bender02 · 2008-04-07 17:25:32

While KDEmod is not maintained by archlinux devs, the two guys that are maintaining it do a very good job. They are devs from a point of view that they develop the "kdemod extension to archlinux". They run forums, bugtracker, and try to stay out of archlinux's way.

schivmeister · 2008-04-07 17:58:01

well, they _are_ devs - kdemod devs and so there is a level of support too, albeit being a third party to linux distributions.

pyther · 2008-04-07 22:24:14

bender02 wrote:

aww jeez, not another thread about this...

aww jeez, not another pointless post again.....

Seriously if you going to post something like that at least provide a link to other threads on the same issue!

Theoden · 2008-04-07 22:32:13

aww jeez - another 'aww jeez' post.

--Theoden

bender02 · 2008-04-07 22:59:39

... hit "search" and enter "kde4 extra"...
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=45764
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=42143
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=42107
(that's 3 out of first 6 search results, the first one is this thread and the one of other two is about unofficial kde4 repo).

EDIT: The previous post might appear contentless, but the message is clear: *Search before posting, doubly so with a hot topic*

Last edited by bender02 (2008-04-07 23:01:41)

arooaroo · 2008-04-08 10:23:17

I'm not too bothered myself that the devs are holding tight - afterall, it's not as if these guys are just sat there, twiddling their thumbs - they are busy people after all, and it's a lot of effort for a less than satisfactory build.

However, by all accounts, the minor 0.0.x releases have stabilized things significantly, and, let's not forget that AL sells itself as "bleeding-edge". Whilst I'm happy to wait a while, or go to kdemod (although I did have problems with kdemod with the 3.5 release), I am surprised not to at least see kde4 in a testing repo somewhere. A place where users can install at their own risk.

staple · 2008-04-08 15:20:42

arooaroo wrote:

I'm not too bothered myself that the devs are holding tight - afterall, it's not as if these guys are just sat there, twiddling their thumbs - they are busy people after all, and it's a lot of effort for a less than satisfactory build.
However, by all accounts, the minor 0.0.x releases have stabilized things significantly, and, let's not forget that AL sells itself as "bleeding-edge". Whilst I'm happy to wait a while, or go to kdemod (although I did have problems with kdemod with the 3.5 release), I am surprised not to at least see kde4 in a testing repo somewhere. A place where users can install at their own risk.

my sentiments exactly (and better phrased!)

kikinovak · 2008-04-08 15:27:35

so why isn't kde4 in community?

I have the latest copy of Linux User on my desktop (the real one, made of wood). Linux User is a very good german magazine. This month's issue includes a test of KDE4. Conclusion: nice, but not ready. Too many missing bits. So I think the Arch devs can motivate their decision not to include KDE4 yet.

tomk · 2008-04-08 16:41:03

Anyone who's been around here for a while will be accustomed to the fact that the community regularly provides alternatives to the official Arch approach, as decided by the dev team. This has already happened here - while Arch holds off on KDE4, others have decided not only to proceed, but to share their work with the community. In other words, KDE4 is "in a testing repo somewhere. A place where users can install at their own risk."

Various posts in this thread eloquently describe our reasoning, so I won't repeat it. For those who would like to use KDE4 on Arch now, I recommend one of the alternative providers. If you feel you can't "rely on 3rd party's to maintain a repo you're using", then you also have the option of building/installing it for yourself.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-04-06 14:47:05

so why isn't kde4 in community?

#2 2008-04-06 15:23:23

Re: so why isn't kde4 in community?

#3 2008-04-06 15:58:12

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#4 2008-04-06 16:45:31

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#5 2008-04-06 17:06:53

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#6 2008-04-06 23:42:09

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#7 2008-04-07 00:02:55

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#12 2008-04-07 17:16:38

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#13 2008-04-07 17:20:47

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#21 2008-04-08 15:27:35

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#22 2008-04-08 16:41:03

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