Arch Linux Automatic Installer

solarwind · 2008-10-13 00:53:29

Arch Linux is an amazing distribution, but the only annoying thing about it is the lack of a "user friendly" installer. I know I know, you guys call it a "do it yourself" distribution, but Arch excels in many areas where other distributions lack. Ex: stability, rolling release model, i686 optimizations, pkgbuilds and so many more. It has never ever failed me.

Is there a "user friendly" installer for arch that requires little or no configuration file editing?

If there isn't, I'm thinking about making a script that runs off of the live CD and will automatically install and set u things for you, more like what Ubuntu does. It will prompt you and install things like:

* Graphics card drivers. Set up X for you.
* Desktop environment. All you have to do is chose Gnome, KDE or whatever.
* Set up ALSA for you and automatically edit configuration files.
* Ask you if you're on a laptop or desktop and set up appropriately.
* Set up wireless for you.
And so on...

It will probably be written in Python.

Are any of you guys interested in such a project? The only reason I installed Ubuntu on my laptop is because I didn't want to spend hours setting up Arch. I know you guys will say "but it's a one time thing", but seriously, it's annoying. Also, I'm thinking for this to be a post-install installer.

Who's with me?

[Update 2008-11-02]

Ok, here's a preliminary outline for the installer.

http://www.blog.solarwind.metafy.org/20 … tions-v10/

This will change drastically over time. Please post what you think about it and revise it.

Last edited by solarwind (2008-11-03 02:59:13)

fukawi2 · 2008-10-13 00:58:05

FaunOS?

solarwind · 2008-10-13 01:00:51

fukawi2 wrote:

FaunOS?

I already know about that one, but I'm talking about making an installer for use with Arch Linux, not derivatives.

dhave · 2008-10-13 01:16:03

I'm not categorically opposed to it, but I think the present installer -- which isn't really so very hard to manage -- is a sort of threshold over which a user has to cross before confidently running Arch.

To have an easy-peasey automatic installer which doesn't require the user to know beans about his or her system would almost be like false advertising, if you get what I mean.

Users would sail through an automatic installation, then quickly hit a wall when they need to do the first bit of manual configuration, etc.

In short, an automatic installer for Arch would be like automatic transmission on a Lotus Elise.

Dusty · 2008-10-13 01:17:11

I'm pretty sure the FaunOS installer creates a basic Arch system; if it doesn't its code might at least be useful for you.

I personally don't care about the installer; last time I installed Arch it took me about half an hour to get everything set up and working the way I wanted. However, I would be interested to see a project like this in the hands of someone capable like yourself.

I'd like to contribute, but I'm overstretched for 'time spent on Arch' as it is and should be handing projects off to others instead of taking them on! ;-) But I'll be watching your progress closely, good luck! I've been looking towards a "user-friendly disto based on Arch" for a long time now and an installer such as you describe would be a great start. Its a place to send all the people that really shouldn't be using Arch proper. :-)

BTW, haven't I seen you on the TTC before?

Dusty

Maki · 2008-10-13 01:17:13

Just wait for chakra project to get stable

crouse · 2008-10-13 02:15:33

dhave wrote:

In short, an automatic installer for Arch would be like automatic transmission on a Lotus Elise.

:lol:
the LAST thing I want Arch to be is more like Ubuntu...

FWIW, it's fairly easy to script a bunch of "add-ons" for install using bash, basically spend a whole 5 minutes installing the base iso......... then download and run your "add-on/update" script to download and install/configure your machines all alike. Basically keep track the first time you install Arch, of all the additional programs you need to install...... and files you need to edit. Write a small bash script to automate things.... POC

fukawi2 · 2008-10-13 02:17:07

Dusty wrote:

I'm pretty sure the FaunOS installer creates a basic Arch system; if it doesn't its code might at least be useful for you.
I personally don't care about the installer; last time I installed Arch it took me about half an hour to get everything set up and working the way I wanted. However, I would be interested to see a project like this in the hands of someone capable like yourself.

Me too as far as the current installer goes, but I would contribute to a graphical installer where I could. My original post about FaunOS was kind of a suggestion for somewhere to start. IIRC they already kind of have a graphical installer (more of a configuration wizard maybe?)

Misfit138 · 2008-10-13 02:18:22

This has been proposed a few times over the years. I must admit, I am not interested in it, because I actually like the simple installation script as it is.
I do wish you all the best, though.

solarwind · 2008-10-13 02:56:31

Dusty wrote:

I'm pretty sure the FaunOS installer creates a basic Arch system; if it doesn't its code might at least be useful for you.
I personally don't care about the installer; last time I installed Arch it took me about half an hour to get everything set up and working the way I wanted. However, I would be interested to see a project like this in the hands of someone capable like yourself.
I'd like to contribute, but I'm overstretched for 'time spent on Arch' as it is and should be handing projects off to others instead of taking them on! ;-) But I'll be watching your progress closely, good luck! I've been looking towards a "user-friendly disto based on Arch" for a long time now and an installer such as you describe would be a great start. Its a place to send all the people that really shouldn't be using Arch proper. :-)
BTW, haven't I seen you on the TTC before?
Dusty

WHOAH TTC? Are you talking about the BUS?

@ the lotus comment: Instead of building the lotus yourself, this script will build it for you, but with manual transmission. All you need to do is drive. I'm going to use BASH to build it, using the dialog stuff that is present in the current arch setup script.

I'm designing this so one is able to install arch and go from a fresh bare bones install to a very usable, graphical desktop quickly and effortlessly.

Last edited by solarwind (2008-10-13 03:01:37)

SomeGuyDude · 2008-10-13 04:08:32

I hate to say it, but for all the headaches I've gotten putting Arch together (and I honestly think my PC is amongst the easiest to install since it's all Intel pieces), the installer is part of the Arch experience. Half of it is that you do it yourself piece by piece, so having it all automated or otherwise taken care of for the user makes me wonder why they'd be picking Arch int he first place.

Maybe, MAYBE I'd understand a GUI interface, but even that puts a barrier between the user and the meat of the thing. After three days of using Arch I feel like I have a better handle on Linux than I did after a year of Ubuntu, in huge part because the setup involved me editing the config files.

solarwind · 2008-10-13 04:21:02

SomeGuyDude wrote:

I hate to say it, but for all the headaches I've gotten putting Arch together (and I honestly think my PC is amongst the easiest to install since it's all Intel pieces), the installer is part of the Arch experience. Half of it is that you do it yourself piece by piece, so having it all automated or otherwise taken care of for the user makes me wonder why they'd be picking Arch int he first place.
Maybe, MAYBE I'd understand a GUI interface, but even that puts a barrier between the user and the meat of the thing. After three days of using Arch I feel like I have a better handle on Linux than I did after a year of Ubuntu, in huge part because the setup involved me editing the config files.

The "arch experience" is headaches? I'm not talking about an Ubuntu type installer. I'm talking about making something that will help you easily get going to a desktop environment. Those who like headaches don't have to use it

SomeGuyDude · 2008-10-13 05:14:09

solarwind wrote:

The "arch experience" is headaches? I'm not talking about an Ubuntu type installer. I'm talking about making something that will help you easily get going to a desktop environment. Those who like headaches don't have to use it

What I mean is that the allure of Arch is that you build it step by step and get your hands dirty. If you're used to having things "taken care of", it results in headaches (which I readily admit happened because I didn't read the guide closely enough). But using Arch, to a real extent, means "learning Linux" in that you have to learn how the thing's pieced together, what daemons are, what modules are, how to set up Xorg and all of that good stuff.

The problem with an "easy" installer is that once things are set up, the person doesn't know a lot that would be learned having done it the normal way. People won't have a handle on editing all the configuration files that need to be fiddled with as you go (example: installing Wicd). Without reading the Beginner's Guide, if you told me to open up and edit my rc.conf file I'd have been VERY intimidated and likely would screw something up.

When I used Ubuntu, if something went wrong and my system didn't boot I panicked. Yesterday I kept getting a "fatal error" saying it couldn't find my screen. Well, I opened up xorg.conf and noticed I'd screwed up some syntax when I'd done something earlier. Would I have known that had I not gone through the editing process during installation? Heck no. I'm a stone-cold newb but just from going through the installation process I've got a better handle on things than I ever would have otherwise.

As long as the installer doesn't preclude the user from learning what all the configuration files are, the syntax involved, and what they do, then there's no problem. But how can you have an installer that lets the user learn all that without seeming redundant?

Megamixman · 2008-10-13 05:27:21

I'm not so much for an easy installer. On the other hand, it would be nice to have a good automated installer. Something that could take a pre-config file, do intelligent partitioning, installing, configuration, etc. from the parameters in that pre-config. You could then use that and have 'easy' install pre-configs that would setup a Gnome/KDE/*box/dwm/etc. system. It could even setup other configurations like an HTPC or mythbox. The point would be focusing on another KISS system, that CAN be used to fulfill your want without 'polluting' the community, as it were. One of the nice things about Arch Linux is the community and the very fact that for the most part the avg level of discussion, problems, help, etc. is far higher then a lot of the blabber you see on more 'Windows' like Distros.

AD28 · 2008-10-13 05:43:11

SomeGuyDude wrote:

I hate to say it, but for all the headaches I've gotten putting Arch together (and I honestly think my PC is amongst the easiest to install since it's all Intel pieces), the installer is part of the Arch experience.

Just because an installer like this gets written doesn't make it the default Arch installer.. Discouraging a project like this is like discouraging the development of pacman frontends for example. Do I personally use shaman? No. Do I think its existence goes against the Arch experience? No.. in fact I would say that the AUR, and community contribution in general, is one of the strongest highlights of Arch.

SomeGuyDude · 2008-10-13 05:45:33

AD28 wrote:

Just because an installer like this gets written doesn't make it the default Arch installer.. Discouraging a project like this is like discouraging the development of pacman frontends for example. Do I personally use shaman? No. Do I think its existence goes against the Arch experience? No.. in fact I would say that the AUR, and community contribution in general, is one of the strongest highlights of Arch.

Just expressing an opinion. I think in the long haul, having an easier installation process will hinder users. The strength of Arch is that is does take a little effort, it's why I'm using it right now: the learning experience. Remove that and I think a piece of Arch is lost.

fukawi2 · 2008-10-13 05:59:52

SomeGuyDude wrote:

The strength of Arch is that is does take a little effort, it's why I'm using it right now: the learning experience. Remove that and I think a piece of Arch is lost.

It's not going to be removed. We're talking about offering an alternative, should someone wish to choose that over the default (current) installation routine

Stythys · 2008-10-13 06:25:46

solarwind wrote:

The only reason I installed Ubuntu on my laptop is because I didn't want to spend hours setting up Arch. I know you guys will say "but it's a one time thing", but seriously, it's annoying. Also, I'm thinking for this to be a post-install installer.
Who's with me?

um...hours? I can setup and install an arch system in ten, maybe five minutes. The install is pretty easy and straightforward. Don't know what you're complaining about here.

fukawi2 · 2008-10-13 11:42:02

Stythys wrote:

um...hours? I can setup and install an arch system in ten, maybe five minutes.

Not all of us have a fast pipe when doing an FTP install I only have a 512k pipe and it takes me several hours to get a full system with Gnome running.
I agree it's not overly-complicated, but it can be annoying having to wait for downloads to complete to be able to do the next step, then continue waiting for more downloads

Stythys · 2008-10-13 12:08:05

then download the normal installer, not the ftp? also that point is completely irrelevant as you have to download packages in any other distro you choose, which, btw, will most likely be *more* than arch.

fuscia · 2008-10-13 13:16:55

i'd call the present arch installer detailed rather than hard. as an end user, i was introduced to things i'd never heard of during my first arch installation (i still don't know wtf a 'dbus' is). the experience took me to a higher rung on the climb out of the moron pit. it's kind of like an introduction to the things you'll be working with from there on out. i like it the way it is.

dhave · 2008-10-13 13:24:32

fuscia wrote:

i'd call the present arch installer detailed rather than hard. as an end user, i was introduced to things i'd never heard of during my first arch installation (i still don't know wtf a 'dbus' is). the experience took me to a higher rung on the climb out of the moron pit. it's kind of like an introduction to the things you'll be working with from there on out. i like it the way it is.

Great comment, especially the part about the moron pit. I've been there, and still slip back into it more than I'd like to admit.

SiC · 2008-10-13 14:22:01

dhave wrote:

Great comment, especially the part about the moron pit. I've been there, and still slip back into it more than I'd like to admit.

You mean there's a way out?

solarwind · 2008-10-13 15:14:03

The thing I'm more interested here is how Dusty saw me on the TTC... North York and Toronto aren't that close... Even so, how would he recognize me given he only knows my "alias" - solarwind?

Last edited by solarwind (2008-10-13 15:15:25)

dhave · 2008-10-13 15:18:47

solarwind wrote:

The thing I'm more interested here is how Dusty saw me on the TTC... North York and Toronto aren't that close... Even so, how would he recognize me given he only knows my "alias" - solarwind?

I feel certain there's a perfectly illogical explanation for this.

Arch Linux

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Arch Linux Automatic Installer

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