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#1 2009-09-14 04:55:33

binskipy2u
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Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 212

first post, newb here.. simple question..

I seen that 2009.8 is more "automated".. and the defaults (as i've read) will most likely work..
after it's all done and have i have a blank screen with the prompt and i type root and hit enter and enter again (no password yet)(unless i make one during the process of install)
if i type pacman -S kde (that should install all of KDE and X)?

i read there's lil need to set up X any more?

did i read all this right?

thanks..

base installation of 2009.8 is easy.. its the next step where the wiki kinda stops..(at least I cant seem to figure what step is next)

i'm really after kde 4.3.1 (im using gnome now in ubuntu)  but all i've read , it seems that archs ' 64bit kde is faster, more stable then kubuntu/ppa version of kde 4.3.x
and will mp3, avi, flash etc work out of the box? or do i have to search the forums to figure all of this out?

any help would be most appreciated..

Last edited by binskipy2u (2009-09-14 04:56:59)


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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#2 2009-09-14 07:02:49

fukawi2
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From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,217
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Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

binskipy2u wrote:

if i type pacman -S kde (that should install all of KDE and X)?

I'm not 100% sure, but if it's like Gnome, then no, xorg won't be installed. You will still need to install it separatly with `pacman -S xorg`

binskipy2u wrote:

i read there's lil need to set up X any more?

Depends on your hardware, but IME it is much easier than in the past. Make sure you start hal/dbus before trying to start X / KDE if you're not setting up an xorg.conf file! smile

binskipy2u wrote:

and will mp3, avi, flash etc work out of the box? or do i have to search the forums to figure all of this out?

You will need to install the appropriate codecs and software. You shouldn't have to search the forums - it's all in the wiki. Flash on 64-bit works great for me.

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#3 2009-09-14 08:03:52

ngoonee
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From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,354

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

Are you using the Beginner's Guide or the Installation Guide? From the questions posted, I'd recommend the former rather than the latter.

For the questions after that, for example for mp3s and stuff, search the wiki. Lots of good information there.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#4 2009-09-14 12:18:42

techprophet
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Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 209

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

fukawi2 wrote:
binskipy2u wrote:

if i type pacman -S kde (that should install all of KDE and X)?

I'm not 100% sure, but if it's like Gnome, then no, xorg won't be installed. You will still need to install it separatly with `pacman -S xorg`

binskipy2u wrote:

i read there's lil need to set up X any more?

Depends on your hardware, but IME it is much easier than in the past. Make sure you start hal/dbus before trying to start X / KDE if you're not setting up an xorg.conf file! smile

binskipy2u wrote:

and will mp3, avi, flash etc work out of the box? or do i have to search the forums to figure all of this out?

You will need to install the appropriate codecs and software. You shouldn't have to search the forums - it's all in the wiki. Flash on 64-bit works great for me.

pacman -S kde does *not* pull in xorg. So you need to run:

pacman -S kde xorg

And that will install both. See here for more details.

[offtopic]This is where I would like [wiki] tags[/offtopic]

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#5 2009-09-14 15:48:06

binskipy2u
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Posts: 212

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

seems like a lot of work, i was under the impression the automated interactive installer would do alot of the basics for you...
ive printed out 81 pages of one guide, 18 of the other.. and still after 7 tries and numerous hours.. kernel panic, xorg errors, ccouldnt start x, etc etc etc.

and YES I can read...


I guess arch isnt for me, i've read thru so many posts around here, most of them say read this, read that, it's in the wiki..

figured there'd be another simpler guide.. but i guess not..

read the wiki seems to be the new "rtfm"

thanks for the help.. I have a distro that "works" no real need to fix what isnt broken..


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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#6 2009-09-14 16:28:46

ugkbunb
Member
Registered: 2009-02-26
Posts: 227

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

I to had trouble the first time I attempted to install Arch... I gave up for a week and then decided to try again... and the second time everything just worked... My only advice is that likely your missing a step in the Begginers/Installation guide... if you have another computer that can load up the guides and continually reference them while you are installing I am sure you will be able to successfully install arch... From your initial post it seems like you didn't even bother reading large portions of the guide. Arch isn't mean to be a GUI do-it-all install... it is meant to be customizable to the individual users needs... The ArchWiki is the best resource to date that I have found... it is very well put together... 90% of the all the problems I have ran into are quickly solved by doing a quick google search "problemX archwiki" and if for whatever reason their happens to not have an entry on it... "problemX archlinux" seems to pop up relevant forum posts. I really do not see how their could be a simpler guide while still retaining the ability to customize the distro to each individuals liking and personally I do not find it that difficult or convoluted... it separated into easy to follow steps... albeit I will grant you a semi-long process (once you have done it once... it doesn't seem so long the second or third time you do it). By the time you do get installed you will have learned more about your system and that knowledge will help you in being able to track down problems as they arise or at least be able to post up the necessary information that will help fellow forum users in diagnosing/solving your issues. That being said... if you enjoy your previous distro and it does everything you like... then stick with what works... but just realize you are missing the brilliance in simplicity that is Arch ; )

Last edited by ugkbunb (2009-09-14 16:33:36)

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#7 2009-09-14 20:37:35

bernarcher
Forum Fellow
From: Germany
Registered: 2009-02-17
Posts: 2,281

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

I needed three (3) attempts until my first arch installation really worked. After the first failing attempt I printed the whole Beginners Guide and read it thoroughly before trying again. It turned up that I missed a viable step (forgot which one).
The second install attempt failed because I was not able to set up my pppoe connection. Some wiki reading solved this as well (it was easy) and then, voilà, the system ran.
Since then I installed arch several times again without any problem.

Hence -- print the Beginners Guide and The Official Install Guide and keep them handy for your next install attempt. It is worth the paper!

And not least: Good Luck! big_smile


To know or not to know ...
... the questions remain forever.

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#8 2009-09-14 22:43:18

fukawi2
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From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,217
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Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

binskipy2u wrote:

seems like a lot of work, i was under the impression the automated interactive installer would do alot of the basics for you...

No, Arch Linux gives you an absolute minimum base and it's up to you to do the rest. That's where it is unique and powerful.

binskipy2u wrote:

I guess arch isnt for me, i've read thru so many posts around here, most of them say read this, read that, it's in the wiki..

That's fair enough - at least you tried instead of just dismissing it outright. Arch isn't for everyone smile

binskipy2u wrote:

read the wiki seems to be the new "rtfm"

We're not trying to be rude in saying that, but the Arch Wiki is one of the best available so we tend not to like to repeat ourselves wink
If you ask specific questions, with specific error messages then you're likely to get a much more specific response. General and broad questions like your original post are well documented in the wiki so if you want to try again, give us some of the specific errors you're getting and we can give you more specific help smile

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#9 2009-09-14 22:50:15

ngoonee
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From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,354

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

What fukawi2 said.

binskipy2u, if you've read up a bit on Arch you'd have known that its not meant for those who don't want to be learning. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not the target for Arch, so if Ubuntu/Fedora or whatever works better for you, stick there.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#10 2009-09-14 23:30:27

Mardoct
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Registered: 2009-08-17
Posts: 208

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

I tried installing Arch only a few weeks after learning about the basics like partitioning. Complete failure, went to Ubuntu / Fedora for antother few months, cam back, seemed so easy. Now I can do installs from boot disk to working Openbox / tint2 panel desktop without any documentation.


The human being created civilization not because of willingness but of a need to be assimilated into higher orders of structure and meaning.

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#11 2009-09-14 23:55:37

binskipy2u
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Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 212

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

I just did a complete live dvd backup of my install so i can have it up and running in less then an hour..

i'm going to try to learn (with the official arch install guide) and install arch..
using the commands (pacman -S kde xorg)
that should get me up and running when i type startx

then ill change the init to a different run level (learned this while fooling with slackware) so i have a log in
then ill add user

and then start reading more and more of the wiki/forums.. to get it the way i want it...

wish me luck.. didnt mean to be "rude" I don't mind "learning" but with ONLY one system.. if i had another.. I would just dove in, with the wiki/install manual on one screen and diving head first into the other computer with arch..

but since i have a live installable dvd backup.. it's only "time."

thanks again I'll be back i hope (lol)


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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#12 2009-09-15 00:08:26

fukawi2
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From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,217
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Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

binskipy2u wrote:

using the commands (pacman -S kde xorg)
that should get me up and running when i type startx

Don't forget to start hal/dbus wink

binskipy2u wrote:

then ill change the init to a different run level (learned this while fooling with slackware) so i have a log in

Arch doesn't have traditional run-levels, but you can setup init 5 to start your login manager, and init 3 to kill it:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Sta … .2Finittab

binskipy2u wrote:

wish me luck.. didnt mean to be "rude" I don't mind "learning" but with ONLY one system.. if i had another.. I would just dove in, with the wiki/install manual on one screen and diving head first into the other computer with arch..

You don't need luck, just patience wink
If you've only got the one system, perhaps you should stick with your Ubuntu/Fedora/SUSE (I don't know what you're running atm) and install Arch in a Virtual Machine using VirtualBox or similar until you're familiar with how things work. At least you'll still have a usable system in the meantime while you're learning Arch.

binskipy2u wrote:

thanks again I'll be back i hope (lol)

Glad to hear it smile

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#13 2009-09-15 00:16:42

binskipy2u
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Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 212

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

I think i'll wait till i get the "big"manual printed out..
looks like alot of stuff to type to get xorg working "before" kde..
would be better if i have a printed source instead writing it myself, with my luck i'll miss something

does the beginners guide reflect 2009.8? or still the release before?

just wondering

Last edited by binskipy2u (2009-09-15 00:22:30)


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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#14 2009-09-15 01:32:07

fukawi2
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From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,217
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Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

It doesn't reflect any particular release... Being a rolling distribution, packages are changing every day.

If you run into any problems while following the Beginners Guide, post a new topic here with the exact problem and we'll sort you out and get you back on track smile

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#15 2009-09-15 02:37:03

chender
Member
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 41
Website

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

I too am new to Arch, but I think the Beginners Guide is outstanding.  if you take the time to read the high level points, and follow each one, there will be few issues.  The one key is that during the base system install to ensure that wireless tools are installed and working for your laptop.

1. base system
2. configure and update base system before proceeding - doing an -Syu here is essential to ensure no kernel panics
3. instlall X and ALSA
4. pick and install a DE

There are no (easy) shortcuts and following this flow will ensure a stable set up.

PS - shortcuts:  I did locate this which if done at step 2 after pacman -Syu will result in a perfect LXDE system.  Read the wiki page first though.    I only mention because its super lightweight and a very simple DE to have as an alternative in case another one goes south on you.  I use xmonad but the reassurance of having lxde handy got me through a few tricky moments.

From here: http://wiki.lxde.org/en/ArchLinux


--
thinkpad X60s [t400s coming soon] | archlinux i686 | xmonad | dmenu |

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#16 2009-09-15 02:50:10

binskipy2u
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Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 212

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

is lxde 64bit? i'm thinking of doing a 64bit net install


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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#17 2009-09-15 03:05:07

sHyLoCk
Member
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2009-06-19
Posts: 1,197

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

binskipy2u wrote:

is lxde 64bit? i'm thinking of doing a 64bit net install

Yes lxde has 64bit version.


~ Regards,
sHy
ArchBang: Yet another Distro for Allan to break.
Blog | GIT | Forum (。◕‿◕。)

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#18 2009-09-15 03:15:48

binskipy2u
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Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 212

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

so this is what i'm going to do, i read quite a few wiki's..
***************
1 install base system (which will give me a sources.list entry ,same one i used for net install)
2.pacman -Syu (to update anything that may need updating)
3. install Xorg

pacman -S xorg
then
pacman -Ss xf86-video ( to get my vid card, i have an ati hd 3200 256mb)
pacman -S <my video card driver>
after all of this,

pacman -S hal
then
/etc/rc.d/hal start

reboot

pacman -S lxde(this will get me ALL of what lxde has to offer) and kde-base

will look like this.   pacman -S lxde kde-meta-kdebase
then

pacman -Sy alsa-lib alsa-utils
and then
pacman -S alsa-oss

this all should get me a working (fully working) LXDE desktop, and kde basic desktop with sound, hopefully (so I can pacman whatever I want) (with help from the kde wiki

sound good so far.. (this is me reading alot and putting multiple parts of wikis together)?

Last edited by binskipy2u (2009-09-15 03:16:40)


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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#19 2009-09-15 03:28:46

ugkbunb
Member
Registered: 2009-02-26
Posts: 227

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

Make sure you read up on how to configure the .conf files... in particular the daemon line in the rc.conf

    * /etc/rc.conf
    * /etc/fstab
    * /etc/mkinitcpio.conf
    * /etc/modprobe.d/modprobe.conf
    * /etc/resolv.conf
    * /etc/hosts
    * /etc/hosts.deny
    * /etc/hosts.allow
    * /etc/locale.gen
    * /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
    * /etc/pacman.conf

You will also need some sort of login manager unless you plan to login manually... I use slim and it works great for my needs... but from an Arch newbie (i am not that experienced) that looks like you are on the right track. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can double check it... your drivers should be the catalyst ones... 9.9 are in the AUR... and if you need 9.10 check the ATI thread in Arch Disccusion section other forum... should be like the second to last page. Also perhaps install networkmanager or your appropirate network tool *this may not be needed with LXDE... not sure if it comes bundled with its own network tool. To install things from the AUR... yaourt works great... although you can always just manually grab the files by hand or by pbget and use 'makepkg PKGBUILD' to build the pkg.

Last edited by ugkbunb (2009-09-15 03:31:27)

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#20 2009-09-15 03:30:32

sHyLoCk
Member
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2009-06-19
Posts: 1,197

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

binskipy2u wrote:

so this is what i'm going to do, i read quite a few wiki's..
***************
1 install base system (which will give me a sources.list entry ,same one i used for net install)

Don't forget to configure your network.


pacman -S hal
then
/etc/rc.d/hal start

reboot

Just put dbus and hal in daemons array in /etc/rc.conf then reboot or start them.


~ Regards,
sHy
ArchBang: Yet another Distro for Allan to break.
Blog | GIT | Forum (。◕‿◕。)

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#21 2009-09-15 03:34:15

binskipy2u
Banned
Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 212

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

the more i'm reading the more i realize i need a 2nd computer in order to do this...

lol


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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#22 2009-09-15 03:52:24

fukawi2
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From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,217
Website

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

binskipy2u wrote:

/etc/rc.d/hal start

reboot

No point in starting hal before you reboot! tongue

Either start it manually after reboot, or add it to DAEMONS in /etc/rc.conf so it starts at boot automatically.

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#23 2009-09-15 04:01:27

guzz46
Member
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2009-06-18
Posts: 190

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

the more i'm reading the more i realize i need a 2nd computer in order to do this...

it definitely helps a lot, i use my cell phone as i don't have another pc

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#24 2009-09-15 04:23:20

Mardoct
Member
Registered: 2009-08-17
Posts: 208

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

My usual regimen when I manage to blow something up internally is:

Base system install with sudo, base-devel and openssh - add archlinuxfr repo to pacman.conf, put hal in rc.conf
Pacman -Syy
Pacman -S nvidia
nvidia-xconfig
pacman  -S yaourt openbox openbox-themes ... firefox 'n' crap ... slim slim-themes fuse menumaker
Add fuse to rc.conf modules
Run slim, it always seems to freeze on first run for me, but works after I'm forced to do a hard reset
----
useradd ...
edit the new user .xinit to run openbox
su <user>
yaourt -S tint2
add tint2 to autostart.sh for openbox
mmaker -vf OpenBox3
slim
Log in
???
Profit!


The human being created civilization not because of willingness but of a need to be assimilated into higher orders of structure and meaning.

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#25 2009-09-15 04:28:55

binskipy2u
Banned
Registered: 2009-09-14
Posts: 212

Re: first post, newb here.. simple question..

ok that post isnt even english to me..

experimentation is not my thing i guess.. what seemed like hours of reading, may turn into days, thats even if i find the right way to go at all..


spent 6 hours installing about a month ago.. and never got it right.. with a printed version 81 pages of one install manual, and the 18 page one, both open at the same time..

think i'll just wait till i get another spare computer so i can at least read while i'm working..

i have a working 64bit distro that is just how i like it.. no reason to fix what isnt broken..

thanks for all your help everyone..


"Sometimes you comfort the afflicted, other times you AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE"

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