Do you use Linux/FOSS for practical or ideological reasons.

gtfernandezm · 2010-05-12 02:15:12

Do you use Linux and other free software for ideological reasons or practical ones? Is it simply the best tool for what you want to do, or do you use it because you support the philosophy behind it? Will/do you use proprietary software? Do you find non-free software to be immoral or ethically unacceptable?

(I edited the title and the questions)

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Do you use Linux and other software for ethical reasons of practical ones?
Mostly ethical. I first got into Firefox and eventually Ubuntu out of curiosity, but I made the decision to move to using almost all free software because I think the open source philosophy to create a morally superior production model. Simply put: Sharing is caring. It makes me happy to have a system based on those values.

Will/do you use proprietary software?
Sure. I do, I use Flash, Air, and plenty of proprietary web apps. But I will choose a slightly inferior free tool over a prorpietary one. But if the differences are more than minor I will go for the best one. Free appliations often overcome their problems faster and are easier to fiddle out if I feel up to it.

Do you consider free software to be unethical
No. A creator has the right to define what rights they give away. When I buy a box of small bags of chips it says "Not for resale" or something like that. The creator has not sold me the right to commercially redistribute their product, that is their right. I only have the rights they choose to give me, whether for free or in exchange for money. Even free software retains some rights; which ones you keep is a perfectly arbitrary line. It is so arbitrary that to call one side of a particular line morally acceptable and the other unacceptable is almost meaningless.

Last edited by gtfernandezm (2010-05-13 01:16:33)

arinlares · 2010-05-12 04:51:41

I'm a practical user, but think free software has a lot to offer. I've got mostly free software on my netbook, and free software where I can on my desktop running Vista (games, 7Zip). On my netbook, in Arch, all I've got proprietary-wise is Flash, Java, and Acrobat Reader, whereas in Debian, it's all free (or at least, however free the Linux kernel is). I usually jump to free software first, unless it doesn't do what I want, or it doesn't work right. Odd example: any OGG conversion I do is handled by BonkEnc in Windows Vista, (BonkEnc is free software), using the WMA-in plugin from Winamp (which is proprietary), because I have yet to meet a fully-working, all-free WMA converter in Linux. Unfortunately, not everything has a decent free counterpart.

Last edited by arinlares (2010-05-12 04:53:47)

fukawi2 · 2010-05-12 06:15:24

gtfernandezm wrote:

Do you use Linux and other free software for ethical reasons or practical ones?

Practical.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Is it simply the best tool for what you want to do, or do you use it because you support the philosophy behind it?

Best Tool for the Job (tm).

gtfernandezm wrote:

Will/do you use proprietary software?

Yes I do.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Do you find non freee software to be unethical?

No. I find developers of "non-free" (as in freedom) software who write poor quality software and/or refuse to fix it unethical.

austin.rbn · 2010-05-12 07:04:21

I think that corporations who try to coerce their customers in any way, including the threat of legal action for redistribution, are behaving unethically. However, I don't think that using proprietary software is necessarily unethical. That being said, I would much rather support a community-driven effort that is distributed freely, with source, than a program whose use will be restricted by the lawyers of the corporation.

Basically, I am strongly in favor of maximizing individual liberty and destroying the myth of "intellectual property". In a state of affairs where freedom was valued, I think open source development would naturally flourish, due to technical and organizational superiority.

So, I support open source, and the mindset behind it. However, I also don't think that proprietary software is "untouchable".

tlvb · 2010-05-12 08:51:33

Quite often both. I don't think that proprietary software is "unethical" per se, but in cases where services are becoming as ubiquitous as eg roads, I think that going free and open is the only way, because 'the custormers' will approach 'the people' and I don't think it is a good thing that a single or a few companies hold that much power over the people (not that this isn't already the case). This especially goes for communication protocols/storage formats, eg imagine if TCP/IP were proprietary and you had to pay a license fee to use it in your software.

samuele.mattiuzzo · 2010-05-12 08:56:48

I started using linux because of practical reasons (university, mainly) but then i joined the unix philosophy and liked it, not only on software, but generally on everything that can be shared with others. i think free software is a great thing, because it doesn't mean that a developer / company can earn from a free software, it's just a diferent way of working (working for the improvement and sharing of the knowledge, instead of just working to offer a service and earn some money).
I don't mind proprietary software, i just don't like monopolism and too much restrictions for the users (safer shouldn't come along with stricter)

flamelab · 2010-05-12 09:00:12

fukawi2 wrote:

gtfernandezm wrote:
Do you use Linux and other free software for ethical reasons or practical ones?
Practical.
gtfernandezm wrote:
Is it simply the best tool for what you want to do, or do you use it because you support the philosophy behind it?
Best Tool for the Job (tm).
gtfernandezm wrote:
Will/do you use proprietary software?
Yes I do.
gtfernandezm wrote:
Do you find non freee software to be unethical?
No. I find developers of "non-free" (as in freedom) software who write poor quality software and/or refuse to fix it unethical.

+1. Agree on all of these.

Themaister · 2010-05-12 09:48:51

gtfernandezm wrote:

Do you use Linux and other free software for ethical reasons or practical ones?

Practical.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Is it simply the best tool for what you want to do, or do you use it because you support the philosophy behind it?

A mix of both, but if it wasn't the best tool, I probably wouldn't use it.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Will/do you use proprietary software?

Yes, if there is no free alternative that matches.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Do you find non freee software to be unethical?

Not really. I just don't like it. It is unethical when non-free software attempts to harm free software in some way. (software patents, etc).

SiC · 2010-05-12 10:11:45

I've always been quite pragmatic in my use of technology. I enjoy using Linux more than I enjoy using Windows, hence it's use as my primary desktop. I use windows in work because that's what is installed on the machine, but I have plenty of free software installed, Openoffice, The Gimp, LaTeX editors etc. But I also use Matlab, Mathematica etc, because they are by far and away the best tools for the Job, most free software doesn't come within a lightyear, maybe over time, but right now, these are the only game in town.

Basically, I have no objection to using non-free software, as long as it doesn't impose too much upon my workflow. I think, for example, that visual studio is the best IDE out there bar none, and being honest, Windows is a much better gaming platform than linux, not because it is technologically superior, but because it's what developers write games for.

Viski · 2010-05-12 12:53:00

Themaister wrote:

gtfernandezm wrote:
Do you use Linux and other free software for ethical reasons or practical ones?
Practical.
gtfernandezm wrote:
Is it simply the best tool for what you want to do, or do you use it because you support the philosophy behind it?
A mix of both, but if it wasn't the best tool, I probably wouldn't use it.
gtfernandezm wrote:
Will/do you use proprietary software?
Yes, if there is no free alternative that matches.
gtfernandezm wrote:
Do you find non freee software to be unethical?
Not really. I just don't like it. It is unethical when non-free software attempts to harm free software in some way. (software patents, etc).

+1 on these

moljac024 · 2010-05-12 12:57:59

Why would non-free software be unethical?

drcouzelis · 2010-05-12 13:41:23

moljac024 wrote:

Why would non-free software be unethical?

Free software is software that respects a user's freedom, as defined by the Free Software Foundation. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Free software advocates believe that these freedoms are the rights of every computer user. To deny someone of their rights is unethical.

But, if you don't believe that your freedom in regards to the definition given by the FSF is a right, then there is nothing unethical about non-free software.

Misfit138 · 2010-05-12 13:47:17

gtfernandezm wrote:

Do you use Linux and other free software for ethical reasons or practical ones?

Neither. It is usually not very practical for me to use, because the learning curve is quite often steeper for me than for proprietary equivalents.
I use it for its hobbyist and educational value; it's fun.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Is it simply the best tool for what you want to do, or do you use it because you support the philosophy behind it?

It is often NOT the best tool for me, especially for audio/video/gaming purposes, which constitutes much of what I use a computer for.
It is fun to learn alternative methods; knowledge is good.
I like the philosophy, and further I believe that money, markets and economics are all twisted, but I still am unable to take my family and live off the grid.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Will/do you use proprietary software?

Yes, certainly. 2142 Battlefield, the Fate trilogy, iMovie, iDVD, Garageband and others are without FOSS equal.

gtfernandezm wrote:

Do you find non freee software to be unethical?

No, I understand that people must work if they wish to eat. A career at a software company is honest work.

drcouzelis · 2010-05-12 13:59:26

Misfit138 wrote:

gtfernandezm wrote:
Do you find non free software to be unethical?
No, I understand that people must work if they wish to eat. A career at a software company is honest work.

That doesn't make sense. gtfernandezm didn't say anything about people who create software not being paid for their work.

EDIT: I take back what I said. I was mistaken about the meaning of Misfit's comment.

Last edited by drcouzelis (2010-05-12 15:08:39)

Misfit138 · 2010-05-12 14:08:48

drcouzelis wrote:

Misfit138 wrote:
gtfernandezm wrote:
Do you find non free software to be unethical?
No, I understand that people must work if they wish to eat. A career at a software company is honest work.
That doesn't make sense. gtfernandezm didn't say anything about people who create software not being paid for their work.

It makes perfect sense, you're just being contentious.

hokasch · 2010-05-12 14:30:40

For me, Open Source is a wonderful example for how value can be created through cooperation and without money as primary incentive, clashing with the idea of man based purely on self interest ("homo economicus") that provides the fundamental basis of today's economic system. I like that.

But I am pragmatic/practical about what to use really, don't mind keeping a Windows partition for Photoshop and the casual gaming. The only proprietary stuff in use daily I can think of atm are Skype and video drivers.

edit: removed the quote from Misfit - ripped it out of context a bit I realised

Last edited by hokasch (2010-05-12 14:35:34)

drcouzelis · 2010-05-12 14:59:18

gtfernandezm wrote:

Do you use Linux and other free software for ethical reasons or practical ones? Is it simply the best tool for what you want to do, or do you use it because you support the philosophy behind it? Will/do you use proprietary software? Do you find non freee software to be unethical?

I would consider myself more of an "ethical user". For most of a year, I only used an operating system that is supported by the FSF, meaning I only used free and open source software. I was able to do everything I needed and wanted to do. I really liked it.

Some interesting things I learned during that time are:

I didn't use Flash. The only thing I was interested in using it for is to watch YouTube videos. It is so easy to download high quality video from YouTube and play them with a movie player so it wasn't a problem. I still do that with Arch, as find the experience of watching the videos much more enjoyable.

There are no free software drivers for Radeon or Geforce video cards. The only option for accelerated graphics with free software are integrated Intel video cards.

I disregarded software patents, since I was only interested in running a FOSS system, not a "non-patent encumbered" system.

It's tricky to know "how far" to go. Although my OS was entirely free software, I was using a non-free BIOS. I personally decided that my motherboard is an "appliance" and that the non-free software used in it did not affect me running only free software. Of course, opinions on this vary.

...to answer the question, I have many reasons for using Linux. At that time, the reason was to not use non-free software. I stopped using that distribution partly due to some decisions made by the developers, but more because I decided that having a OS with the latest versions of software was more important. That's when I started using Arch Linux. Nowadays, I do use the occasional non-free application, but I still consider myself an "ethical user" over a "practical user" of Linux.

But my number one reason for using Linux is still the same: I just really like Linux!

Gullible Jones · 2010-05-12 16:50:59

Practical. And I think you're conflating ethics with various other things.

(Unless one uses FOSS so as to avoid any sort of copyright infringement, which would be an ethical reason.)

Last edited by Gullible Jones (2010-05-12 16:51:36)

teh · 2010-05-12 17:16:03

Ethical - 70%
Practial - 30%

I came into "this" at first for Ethical reasons. But then I realized that software is amazing and I was starting to get involved with practical reasons.

pseudonomous · 2010-05-12 19:40:06

I'm a pragmatist, and I'll use proprietary software, but I believe that there's something un-ethical about withholding services and close things off to non-paying users. So I think that, to some degree, developing proprietary software is unethical. But at the same time, there are far more mundane things which are much less ethical than propriatary software sales and development like, for example, buying fruit from companies like Dole which have a history of brutally exploiting workers in countries where they import fruit into the United States from. But actually, since society seems so hideously broken to me, I've given up on acting ethically, so I'm really not to concerned about how bad it is too use and/or develop proprietary software. Or eat fruit.

gtfernandezm · 2010-05-12 20:34:40

Gullible Jones wrote:

Practical. And I think you're conflating ethics with various other things.

I don't accept that. Choosing to use free software because one finds it to be more morally acceptable than the development/use of non-free software is an ethical decision, one which involves and/or expresses moral approval and/or disapproval.

I used the word unethical in the question. That was inaccurate, it turns out there is no such word and if there were it would be nonsensical in this sense. In fact, a practical decision would be an unethical decision, one not involving moral approval or disapproval. In my first draft of this reply I tried rephrasing it, but any alternatives I could come up with were unneccesarily clunk or equally innacurate.

(Unless one uses FOSS so as to avoid any sort of copyright infringement, which would be an ethical reason.)

I don't think I understand. Do you mean this in the sense of the term which refers to conformance with accepted standards of conduct? Copyright infrigement would not be in conformance, and using FOSS would be a way to avoid acting contrary to those standards. If that is what you mean, I agree but it is not the only ethical reason to use FOSS

Last edited by gtfernandezm (2010-05-12 20:44:03)

moljac024 · 2010-05-12 20:46:25

Misfit138 wrote:

gtfernandezm wrote:
Do you find non freee software to be unethical?
No, I understand that people must work if they wish to eat. A career at a software company is honest work.

This. Or should people with computer science degrees be flippin' burgers to be ethical?
I refrained from asking that question in the previous post

azleifel · 2010-05-12 22:12:25

Do you use Linux and other software for ideological or practical reasons?
Practical
Will/do you use proprietary software?
Yes
Do you consider free software to be unethical?
Free software could only be unethical if there were an accepted system of ethics from which it could be considered to deviate. Similarly, free software could only be immoral if there were an accepted set of moral rules from which it could be considered to deviate. I don't consider free software to be either unethical or immoral. Is free software a threat to a certain type of business model? Possibly. Is that business model immoral? The answer to that question will depend on your ideological standpoint.

davidm · 2010-05-12 23:38:09

1. Do you use Linux and other software for ideological or practical reasons?

75% practical
25% ideological

But the ideological differences and worries can actually become a practical concern eventually.

2. Will/do you use proprietary software?

I strongly prefer not to but will when needed. For instance I prefer to use nouveau over the Nvidia blob where it works and hardware 3d acceleration isn't vital. I will use however the Nvidia blob when I must.

3. Do you consider free software to be unethical?

I presume you mean non-free? Not necessarily but I consider monopolies and monopolistic practices to be extremely unethical. I strongly prefer FOSS for many reasons. I consider FOSS to be more beneficial to society in general and believe it should strongly be encouraged. I see it much like sharing a good idea or invention for the benefit of humanity. FWIW, I believe governments and other organizations should better help support authors of FOSS since I believe it is in the best interest of the community.

Last edited by davidm (2010-05-12 23:41:02)

stqn · 2010-05-13 09:04:26

Do you use Linux and other software for ethical reasons of practical ones?
Mostly practical:

XFCE has an option for not bringing windows to the foreground when they are clicked, not Windows. There are generally many more configuration options under Linux than under Windows or Mac OS X. Also I was sick of the constant disk activity and slowness of Windows XP.

The main reason I usually go with "Free" software is because they are free. The second reason, which derives from the first, is they don't pollute my system with hidden protection systems. I often refrained from trying a commercial demo because of that last point. I have nothing against closed-source freeware (even though open-source is nice for porting efforts or improvements when the original developer stops caring.)

However, I also think monopolies are bad and some companies have too much money and power. So that would be 75% practical, 25% ethical .

Will/do you use proprietary software?
Sure, especially I'm glad to buy from a small developer and help him/her earn a living. But I buy games from big publishers too (mostly for my Xbox actually...)

Do you consider non-free software to be unethical
No, but...

No. A creator has the right to define what rights they give away.
I only have the rights they choose to give me

I think these quotes, at least taken out of context, could find some detractors .

I do agree with you to some extent, but this can deviate into for example the software patent mess that we're seeing today.

Also some people could argue that they need to use software that they can't buy (say, for example, a broke 3D artist looking for a job who is "forced" to use Windows and 3DS Max) and as such that it would be unethical to prevent them from using this software for "free".
(Putting "free" inside quotes because this is implying that this particular person wouldn't give anything back to anyone by doing that, which I wouldn't take for granted.)
That's just an idea I'm toying with, anyway.

Arch Linux

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Do you use Linux/FOSS for practical or ideological reasons.

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