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#1 2012-03-26 23:08:18

twelveeighty
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From: Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-04
Posts: 317

Grub2 - is it coming?

I noticed today that the Wiki article on grub boldly states:

"Note: GRUB Legacy has been deprecated and replaced by GRUB2 in many Linux distributions. For multi-distro booting it's better to use GRUB2. Users are recommended to switch to GRUB2 or Syslinux instead."

Now, grub is in [core] whereas grub2 is in [extra], so I assume Arch is not one of those "many distributions"...? I'm not a fan of grub2's more complicated way, so I'm perfectly fine with the way things are, but is the switch to grub2 coming in the short term?

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#2 2012-03-26 23:49:48

Trilby
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Perhaps the devs can answer whether it will become the default for future installation media, but I can't imagine how/why it would ever be required.  Arch is about choice.  One can use grub, grub2, syslinux, EFI stuff (vague as I only vaguely get it), or any other bootloader that can get the job done.


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#3 2012-03-27 00:22:21

Snowman
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From: Montreal, Canada
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

The reason we still have the legacy grub in [core] is because it's the latest stable release. When grub2 will be marked as stable by the upstream devs, then it'll replace the old grub in [core].

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#4 2012-03-27 05:41:28

the.ridikulus.rat
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From: Indiana, USA
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Snowman wrote:

The reason we still have the legacy grub in [core] is because it's the latest stable release. When grub2 will be marked as stable by the upstream devs, then it'll replace the old grub in [core].

The truth is grub-legacy is deprecated by upstream for a long time, and it was never released as a stable update from the start (0.97 itself was considered alpha, never reached v1.0). Its just that distros found grub-legacy to be better than lilo which they were using then, and so switched to it without bothering about what upstream says about the software.

Grub2 2.00beta2 is (as the name implies) considered beta release and upstream actually recommends people to swtich to 2.00beta2 . In every way grub2 is more stable compared to grub-legacy in core. With a dead upstream and mounting number of patches, at some point the devs will have to ditch grub from the repos.

If grub2 is too complex for you (generally, not specifically directed to Snowman), you can try syslinux. But from what I have seen in many places people do want to give up an outdated and deprecated software because they are emotionally attached to it, in this case to grub-legacy, when syslinux is already present in core and actively maitained (as far as simplicity is concerned).

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#5 2012-06-26 19:28:43

the.ridikulus.rat
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#6 2012-06-26 20:00:12

2ManyDogs
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Registered: 2012-01-15
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Did you miss the big discusssion here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=143928

There is not now (and I hope never will be) a "default" bootloader for Arch. Both the official install guide and the beginner's guide present the options and let the user decide.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-06-26 20:02:49)

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#7 2012-06-26 20:06:07

Trilby
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I suspect the OP of this thread did miss that big discussion.  Perhaps his flux capacitor was malfunctioning and he failed to travel 3 months into the future to see if anyone else was going to start a similar thread.

That or the OP of that other thread missed this one. wink


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#8 2012-06-26 20:23:45

2ManyDogs
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I blame the ridikulus rat for bumping this thread... sorry, I should have seen the OP date wink

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-06-26 20:24:02)

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#9 2012-06-27 00:44:41

ngoonee
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From: Between Thailand and Singapore
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

2ManyDogs wrote:

I blame the ridikulus rat for bumping this thread... sorry, I should have seen the OP date wink

Yet that was exactly the right thing for him to do to add information to the thread smile


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#10 2012-06-27 00:53:28

2ManyDogs
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I said I was sorry... put me in the dog house sad

I guess I'm not used to the mods allowing two threads covering the same topic to exist at once smile

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-06-27 00:57:13)

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#11 2012-06-27 02:25:18

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

2ManyDogs wrote:

I said I was sorry... put me in the dog house sad

I guess I'm not used to the mods allowing two threads covering the same topic to exist at once smile

Yes...we got lazy....but so did the community in not reporting it when the second thread came up wink


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#12 2012-06-27 14:23:58

the.ridikulus.rat
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From: Indiana, USA
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

2ManyDogs wrote:

Did you miss the big discusssion here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=143928

There is not now (and I hope never will be) a "default" bootloader for Arch. Both the official install guide and the beginner's guide present the options and let the user decide.

I replied in that thread too. Mainly users who want to change from grub-legacy to grub-bios (aka grub2-bios) can read my reply at https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 3#p1122383 and the ML post it points to.

MODs: I suggest merging both the threads since both are actually discussing about bootloaders, particularly grub(2), in similar ways.

Last edited by the.ridikulus.rat (2012-06-27 14:26:22)

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#13 2012-06-27 14:51:31

Inxsible
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

the.ridikulus.rat wrote:

MODs: I suggest merging both the threads since both are actually discussing about bootloaders, particularly grub(2), in similar ways.

I disagree. there are too many replies in both threads and depending on the dates of the posts, they will get mixed up making less sense in the thread overall.


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#14 2012-06-27 17:07:58

bwat47
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Registered: 2009-10-07
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

grub-legacy will have to go away eventually, question is when.

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#15 2012-06-27 17:59:47

Trilby
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

The year 3248 is my prediction.

Why would it have to "go away"?  Did syslinux or lilo go away?

Last edited by Trilby (2012-06-27 18:00:12)


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#16 2012-06-27 19:33:26

wfoojjaec
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Registered: 2012-06-22
Posts: 9

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Doh... I like that old fashioned legacy grub. It was one of the reasons I left ubuntu behind - legacy's config is simple as a hole in a wall. When grub2 started to update and autodetect operation systems it was like "ZOMG what is that scary thing doing!?"

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#17 2012-06-27 20:02:09

bwat47
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Registered: 2009-10-07
Posts: 637

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Trilby wrote:

The year 3248 is my prediction.

Why would it have to "go away"?  Did syslinux or lilo go away?

syslinux isn't deprecated, and not a lot of people use lilo anymore.

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#18 2012-06-27 20:43:22

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I don't know (or care) how many people use lilo.  Did it go away?

$ pacman -Ss lilo
core/lilo 23.2-3
    A bootloader for Linux

Nope.

I'm glad grub2 works for many and is becoming more available.  But to conclude any other bootloaders are "going away" just seems very odd.

If all other sources of grub(-legacy) disappear someone will put it up on github or some other server and make a PKGBUILD for it.


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#19 2012-06-28 06:07:27

the.ridikulus.rat
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#20 2012-06-28 11:09:15

gazj
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I still use lilo, it boots my system, what more do I need it to do?

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#21 2012-07-16 05:39:13

twelveeighty
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From: Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-04
Posts: 317

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Since I've already been flamed for missing a big discussion three months in the future (don't worry, I'm joking), I might as well respond here again.

It's now abundantly clear that grub2 a.k.a. grub-bios 2.00 is coming and will be replacing grub 0.97 in [core]. I assume (hope) this means that the AIF script will be changed to support grub2 as well? According to Git (http://projects.archlinux.org/aif.git/), there hasn't been any commits for over 3 months, which worries me. The Grub Wiki page says that "The official installer script AIF (Arch Installation Framework) does not support GRUB(2) yet."...

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#22 2012-07-16 06:48:21

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

There may not be an AIF to support Grub2 at all http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 02625.html

You just choose your own bootloader and go about your business...


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#23 2012-07-16 13:51:05

twelveeighty
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From: Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-04
Posts: 317

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Wouldn't it become unnecessarily complicated to install Arch? Even experienced Linux users that want to "try out" Arch for the first time on a fresh VM would probably moan and gripe if the standard ISO disk doesn't have an automated "default" bootloader installation and have to manually configure Grub.

Unless of course AIF keeps using grub-legacy?

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#24 2012-07-16 14:01:37

Allan
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From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,416
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Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I think you are missing the point...   There is not AIF on the next ISO - everything will be done manually.

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#25 2012-07-16 14:35:32

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,073

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

muhahahhaha !!!!


Fun times at the bbs then !


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