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#101 2012-07-28 11:34:29

hoschi
Member
From: Ulm (Germany)
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 352
Website

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

Sorry. Just be clear this point: Will systemd replace old-style Arch-Initscripts in future?

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#102 2012-07-28 12:50:44

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

hoschi wrote:

Sorry. Just be clear this point: Will systemd replace old-style Arch-Initscripts in future?

No decision has been made. It seems increasingly likely, but that is just my guess.

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#103 2012-07-29 07:55:22

hoschi
Member
From: Ulm (Germany)
Registered: 2008-11-03
Posts: 352
Website

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

Thank you! So I know, I should prepare for that smile



The new install media seems not be able to boot on UEFI-Mode, from USB-Stick or SD-Card. And if booted from CD/DVD, the boot menu will not load (instead the live system loads immediately) and the module "efivars" must be loaded manually afterwards (check for "/sys/firmware/efi"). I understand now why Matthew Garret from Red Hat always fights with BIOS, UEFI, EL TORITO and the other things. Is their anyone working on this? More and more devices use UEFI and doesn't contain a CD/DVD-Drive either.

Luck:
Some days ago I decide not to burn a backup of the preinstalled Windows from my ThinkPad to DVD. Because it was my last DVD*. Never thought that I will use this old-fashioned drive with the spinning disc in it. Archboot seem to be not a sane workaround, because it is older than the current official install media. Other workaround could be using the official install media from Archlinux and afterwards
efibootmgr from Fedora-Live or something.

Last edited by hoschi (2012-07-29 07:59:41)

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#104 2012-07-29 14:20:31

Silence
Member
Registered: 2009-12-28
Posts: 9

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

Thanks to Arch. Arch was nice linux. Will move to someting more respectfull for users time.


Eloquent silence

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#105 2012-07-29 14:33:31

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,423

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

Silence wrote:

Thanks to Arch. Arch was nice linux. Will move to someting more respectfull for users time.

I think you meant to post here :-)

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#106 2012-07-29 15:41:41

andmars
Member
Registered: 2012-03-13
Posts: 153

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

hoschi wrote:

Sorry. Just be clear this point: Will systemd replace old-style Arch-Initscripts in future?

I'm using systemd for a couple of weeks now and have replaced arch-initscripts by systemd completely. All I can say is that the boot and shutdown process is a lot faster and it's easy to handle. So hopefully they will replace it in the near future.

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#107 2012-07-29 21:19:19

hagen
Member
Registered: 2010-09-09
Posts: 2

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

Hi, the new install media is causing me quite some trouble.
Booting the i686 live system works just fine, but bootinig the x86_64 system doesn't really work.
After the kernel is loaded the screen just turns black.
Usually I never had any problems with the x86_64 image.

My Hardware:
CPU: AMD Phenom II x4
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560
Board: Asus M4A87TD Evo

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#108 2012-07-30 06:46:40

NotMine
Member
Registered: 2011-10-13
Posts: 19

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

@hagen

Your issue sounds A LOT LIKE what I ran into with the new install ISO and booting/installing from the "x86_64" choice and documented here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=145648

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#109 2012-07-30 08:01:38

DSpider
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

hagen wrote:

After the kernel is loaded the screen just turns black.

Disable KMS then.


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#110 2012-07-31 20:11:50

MajorTom
Member
From: Canada, GTA
Registered: 2008-09-12
Posts: 58

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

The Installation Guide WIKI is now included in /root/install.txt as part of the ISO image.

Until this document includes some proposed changes, I think this installation template might be helpful. It's very KISS and doesn't cover complex configurations but it should be useful as a quick reference (copy&paste commands, etc.)

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#111 2012-08-01 14:21:29

bwat47
Member
Registered: 2009-10-07
Posts: 637

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

gemma wrote:

the loss of a text mode installer is a disaster, suddenly arch is in gentoo and LFS territory. No text mode installer means a smaller user base in the long run, less intermediate linux users are going to migrate to arch. Admittedly the helper scripts are very good and i think could quite easily be tied together into a bigger script to do the job, but its no replacement for a good ncurses implementation which is what arch had. I will be adding a rough implementation to my AXE script, to make things easier for me when i have to reinstall, but doubt i will ever bother with a ncurses frontend ( but hey maybe, i think there is some interesting curses dialogs that you can script somewhere )

Its really not that much harder (unless you need to do an offline install), you are being hyperbolic. Its a few extra commands. Arch is the most "hardcore" distro I've ever installed, the other distros I've used were always "easy" to install distros like ubuntu/fedora/suse etc...

I had zero issues with the new scripts. In comparison to the old AIF netinstall it didn't take any longer, and with the beginner's guide what I had to do was laid out plain as day. If anything I found the simple, straightforward scripts even easier.

Last edited by bwat47 (2012-08-01 14:33:08)

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#112 2012-08-01 21:00:12

zeek
Member
Registered: 2010-01-07
Posts: 9

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

MajorTom wrote:

I think this installation template might be helpful.

Yes, extemely helpful.
Helped connect the EFI info in "Beginner's Guide" and "GRUB2 Guide" together better.

Question:
-------------
Not sure what /dev/sda1 is referring too.

In the "Configure Bootloader" Section of the Template the following command is given:
# mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /boot/efi   ---> This looks like /dev/sda1 (ie, the ESP) being mounted

But in the "Mount destination" Section of the Template
# mount /dev/sda1 /mnt                   ---> This looks like /dev/sda1 (ie, the root partition) is being mounted



Cheers
Again, thanks for the template

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#113 2012-08-01 22:12:36

MajorTom
Member
From: Canada, GTA
Registered: 2008-09-12
Posts: 58

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

zeek wrote:

Not sure what /dev/sda1 is referring too.

Good point about sda1. It was just a copy&paste from wiki docs and the truth is I haven't tested installing GRUB at all. I use SYSLINUX.

I've now made some changes to the install template text and will see if I can at least test grub-bios. Everyone is welcome to test UEFI and contribute.

Edit: grub-bios successfully tested and instructions simplified.

Last edited by MajorTom (2012-08-02 00:49:30)

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#114 2012-08-02 09:26:08

arunvragh
Member
Registered: 2007-04-17
Posts: 111

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

DSpider wrote:
hagen wrote:

After the kernel is loaded the screen just turns black.

Disable KMS then.

I think you should add acpi_backlight=vendor to the kernel line if it is an Intel Display.

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#115 2012-08-02 13:31:10

brain0
Developer
From: Aachen - Germany
Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 1,382

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

gemma wrote:

No text mode installer means a smaller user base in the long run,

Please, find an Arch developer that cares.

gemma wrote:

less intermediate linux users are going to migrate to arch.

I am trying to find something negative about this, and I fail.

gemma wrote:

but its no replacement for a good ncurses implementation which is what arch had.

And by "good" you mean "completely broken, incompatible with all recent changes in Arch and completely unmaintained". Your definition of "good" is interesting.

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#116 2012-08-02 17:12:55

keepitsimpleengineer
Member
From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 278
Website

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

My 2¢...

Noob to archlinux, I switched to retained some essential (to me) features after my former distro quietly deprecated them.

So my 1st install was using the AIF on my 64bit workstation, and my 2nd was on my 32bit legacy workstation using install media 2012.07.15.

The 1st was fast and easy, I was estatic, especially after the struggles with my former distro.  I became an "•enthusiast".

The 2nd, after getting over the shock, was more troubled but overall more rewarding for me.  Some observations… ‥ .

  • I had trouble connecting to the internet.  A brief turnaround on this forum, a work‧around was successful.  Perhaps the 2012.07.15 Beginners' Guide should offer alternatives.

  • Working out which desktop (I chose xfce4), which display manager (I ended up with lxdm) and how the window manager (for me compiz) and how they all play together was not clear to me at first, the price of relying on canned distro installations.  A bit of high level discussion about this could be very helpful.

I have no opinion about which method is better, both have their +`s & -`s, it would be nice if we could have both.

A little about me: nearly 50 years working with and on computers, retired and use them for entertainment and working on other hobbies.  I'm more of an advanced user than a sysadmin or developer.


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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#117 2012-08-02 17:34:07

2ManyDogs
Member
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 1,635

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

I had trouble connecting to the internet.  A brief turnaround on this forum, a work‧around was successful.  Perhaps the 2012.07.15 Beginners' Guide should offer alternatives.

Please suggest the specific alternatives you would like to see, and what could be improved in the Guide. It is still a work in progress.

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#118 2012-08-02 18:33:44

keepitsimpleengineer
Member
From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 278
Website

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

I've just been using archlinux less than 6 weeks, and I assess my experience level not adequate to be specific.

Here's the forum thread:
post [Solved]Stuck connect to gateway w/static IP on i686 w/2012.07.15 CD

Keep up the good work...


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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#119 2012-08-02 18:47:57

2ManyDogs
Member
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 1,635

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

I've just been using archlinux less than 6 weeks, and I assess my experience level not adequate to be specific.

It's a Beginners' Guide, and you are an (Arch) beginner smile -- what would have helped you in the Guide?

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#120 2012-08-03 02:45:57

fschiff
Member
Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 71

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

The sections at the end of the Beginner's Guide: 4 Post-Installation, 5 Extra and 6 Appendix, all cover the problem of "OK, I've installed Linux, now what?", but they're all scattered in many, many articles.  For an Arch beginner that can be a bit overwhelming.

You have to know what you want to do, before you can do it.

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#121 2012-08-03 03:51:43

jasonwryan
Forum & Wiki Admin
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 18,326
Website

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

fschiff wrote:

The sections at the end of the Beginner's Guide: 4 Post-Installation, 5 Extra and 6 Appendix, all cover the problem of "OK, I've installed Linux, now what?", but they're all scattered in many, many articles.  For an Arch beginner that can be a bit overwhelming.

You have to know what you want to do, before you can do it.


It's a test. smile


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Github

Registered Linux User #482438

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#122 2012-08-03 03:55:00

fschiff
Member
Registered: 2011-10-06
Posts: 71

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

jasonwryan wrote:
fschiff wrote:

The sections at the end of the Beginner's Guide: 4 Post-Installation, 5 Extra and 6 Appendix, all cover the problem of "OK, I've installed Linux, now what?", but they're all scattered in many, many articles.  For an Arch beginner that can be a bit overwhelming.

You have to know what you want to do, before you can do it.


It's a test. smile

Very zenny.
I always mess my chakras up, though.
That should be in the wiki.

Last edited by fschiff (2012-08-03 04:08:35)

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#123 2012-08-03 11:19:45

zebulon
Member
Registered: 2008-10-20
Posts: 235

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

fschiff wrote:

The sections at the end of the Beginner's Guide: 4 Post-Installation, 5 Extra and 6 Appendix, all cover the problem of "OK, I've installed Linux, now what?", but they're all scattered in many, many articles.  For an Arch beginner that can be a bit overwhelming.

You have to know what you want to do, before you can do it.

Well, that is why there is a "discussion" section for each page. If you have a better way to organise the things, please share. It is difficult sometimes, especially for veterans, to see how a novice "feels" about the instructions, because they are too familiar with them. Even if you do not want to edit the page, at least discuss it. Thanks! smile

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#124 2012-08-03 11:40:39

zebulon
Member
Registered: 2008-10-20
Posts: 235

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

I've just been using archlinux less than 6 weeks, and I assess my experience level not adequate to be specific.

Here's the forum thread:
post [Solved]Stuck connect to gateway w/static IP on i686 w/2012.07.15 CD

Keep up the good work...

I read the thread and I do not understand what the problem was exactly, and how it relates to an issue with the Beginner's guide. Could you please let me know more? So that I edit the guide?

Thanks in advance.

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#125 2012-08-03 16:16:48

scottro
Member
From: NYC
Registered: 2002-10-11
Posts: 452
Website

Re: Install media 2012.07.15

I just want to congratulate you on the current beginners' guide.   It seems to me that it will help the novice install Arch without too many issues.

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