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#326 2012-10-16 12:57:29

utops
Member
Registered: 2012-09-24
Posts: 44

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I like  systemd in general,one thing i dislike is kind of randomness  in boot initialization - sometimes is just 9 sec another  time13 and once for boot it can't find my root partition.
That third random event maybe is related to my schizophrenic bios,or just my hdd is simply go nuts - it's almost 6 years i own it.
But initscript never whining about this so it's MISTERY.

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#327 2012-10-17 05:55:45

zb3
Member
Registered: 2012-05-07
Posts: 23
Website

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

lesha-ssh wrote:

For a long years Archlinux WAS my favorite linux distibutive. Because it was simple and powerfull, flexible configurabe. It was really best choise for home and for server! And now, archlinux turning into ....even not Unbutu, Arch turning into Windows!!

RIP, beloved ARCH!

P.S.: I WISH LENNART POETTERING TO GO TO HELL!!!

You can still use it, just recompile packages depending on systemd. It is still easier than LFS(I prefer that one).
I agree that RH wants to turn linux into tightly coupled bloatware....

(He is not the source of that, he's just a RH's toy....)


zb3

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#328 2012-10-17 05:59:25

jasonwryan
Forum & Wiki Admin
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 18,762
Website

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Why are you feeding the troll? And your comments about Red Hat are unwelcome as well:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo … ng_Systems


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Github

Registered Linux User #482438

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#329 2012-10-17 07:04:06

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,838

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

utops wrote:

I like  systemd in general,one thing i dislike is kind of randomness  in boot initialization - sometimes is just 9 sec another  time13 and once for boot it can't find my root partition.
That third random event maybe is related to my schizophrenic bios,or just my hdd is simply go nuts - it's almost 6 years i own it.
But initscript never whining about this so it's MISTERY.

Use the tools provided to examine/analyse/debug your issue - details in the man and wiki pages.

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#330 2012-10-17 08:05:08

kinleyd
Member
From: Thimphu, Bhutan
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 112

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

In describing the steps for shifting to systemd the wiki clearly covers rc scripts. I don't recall anything pertaining to xinetd scripts being mentioned as a part of this process. However, I have seen some mention elsewhere of xinetd in the context of systemd, as well as in an earlier comment by brain0 regarding the clean up of unneeded scripts [NoExtract=/etc/rc.d/* /etc/xinetd.d/*]. Can anyone tell me if I've missed anything with regard to xinetd scripts that need to be done before cleaning them out? Thanks.

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#331 2012-10-17 11:25:26

Lone_Wolf
Member
From: Netherlands, Europe
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 4,237

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I've read that thread, but nobody seems to have stepped up.

I could easily install a VM for testing initscripts-git and such, but it appears arch projects mailinglist is the same as arch-dev-public :
read-only for non-devs .
Hard to contribute without being able to post to  that mailing list ....

Sidenote :
There are several things i dislike about systemd, especially the things they have taken over from other projects (or intend to take over) like udev, ck , polkit, display managers  .

Systemd has many good things in it's design, if systemd development  had focused on making a replacement for PID1 as was the original intention instead of becoming a session manager for both kernelspace AND userspace , i'd probably be a supporter of it.

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2012-10-17 11:26:42)


Booting with apg Openrc, NOT systemd.
Automounting : not needed, i prefer pmount
Aur helpers : makepkg + my own local repo === rarely need them

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#332 2012-10-17 12:06:58

brain0
Developer
From: Aachen - Germany
Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 1,382

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

kinleyd wrote:

In describing the steps for shifting to systemd the wiki clearly covers rc scripts. I don't recall anything pertaining to xinetd scripts being mentioned as a part of this process. However, I have seen some mention elsewhere of xinetd in the context of systemd, as well as in an earlier comment by brain0 regarding the clean up of unneeded scripts [NoExtract=/etc/rc.d/* /etc/xinetd.d/*]. Can anyone tell me if I've missed anything with regard to xinetd scripts that need to be done before cleaning them out? Thanks.

Systemd can start services on demand and obsoletes most of the xinetd functionality. I have xinetd uninstalled now. For example, I use xinetd for git now:

systemctl enable git-daemon.socket

This is basically the same as enabling the git-daemon xinetd file.

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#333 2012-10-17 12:09:12

brain0
Developer
From: Aachen - Germany
Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 1,382

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Lone_Wolf wrote:

I could easily install a VM for testing initscripts-git and such, but it appears arch projects mailinglist is the same as arch-dev-public :
read-only for non-devs .

The list is arch-projects, and anyone who subscribes to it can post.

Lone_Wolf wrote:

Sidenote :
There are several things i dislike about systemd, especially the things they have taken over from other projects (or intend to take over) like udev, ck , polkit, display managers.

I don't see any takeover of display managers or polkit. Systemd absorbed udev and replaced consolekit with logind.

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#334 2012-10-17 14:45:07

San2ban
Banned
From: Bangalore, India
Registered: 2010-02-09
Posts: 258

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Thatis the point, why should systemd absorb udev? Earlier, was it like this?


Satyam eva jayate

Registered linux user #535257

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#335 2012-10-17 15:26:37

WorMzy
Forum Moderator
From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 5,237

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Hasn't this already been covered? http://lwn.net/Articles/490413/

I thought you left anyway? Why are you sending me spam PMs?


Sakura:-
Mobo: ASUS P8Z77-V PRO // Processor: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.4GHz // GFX: nVidia GeForce GTX 970 Ti // RAM: 32GB (4x 8GB) Corsair DDR3 (@ 2133MHz) // Storage: 1x 3TB Seagate SATAII 5x 1TB Samsung SATAII, 2x 120GB Corsair SSD

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#336 2012-10-17 15:58:24

kinleyd
Member
From: Thimphu, Bhutan
Registered: 2012-09-21
Posts: 112

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Thanks brain0, I'm getting the picture now.

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#337 2012-10-17 16:00:17

Doorbreath
Member
Registered: 2010-06-08
Posts: 20

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I'm confused about when we 'officially' move to systemd. I presumed now that new installations are using it that we had switched but I just had a thread closed as we haven't officially switched yet.

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#338 2012-10-17 16:14:02

nierro
Member
From: Milan, Italy
Registered: 2011-09-02
Posts: 808

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

We already switched : systemd-sysvcompat and systemd are in core, while "initscripts" is in extra. what else? We're waiting for gnome3.6 to move in testing and then in extra, with all of its rebuilt packages, such as networkmanager, polkit etc etc, with systemd-only support. Then will be switched at 100%.

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#339 2012-10-17 16:39:21

D4ve
Member
Registered: 2012-08-02
Posts: 209

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Is there a rough estimate of how long it will take to get gnome3.6 to extra?

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#340 2012-10-17 16:41:40

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,427

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

D4ve wrote:

Is there a rough estimate of how long it will take to get gnome3.6 to extra?

No https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 7#p1176837

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#341 2012-10-17 16:43:14

Jristz
Member
From: America/Santiago
Registered: 2011-06-11
Posts: 921

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

when it ready -Allan

But I ask the upcoming are the neede for a pure systemd right or now (alongside removing initscripts) what is the others thinks that I can make for make a Mostest pure (for now) systemd system


Well, I suppose that this is somekind of signature, no?

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#342 2012-10-17 17:05:05

brain0
Developer
From: Aachen - Germany
Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 1,382

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I hope the consolekit removal happens rather sonner than later. Locally, I already rebuilt the last user of consolekit (kdebase-workspace) without consolekit support, and my polkit (still patched for hybrid consolekit and logind support) does its job well.

In our staging repository, consolekit support is removed everywhere (somewhat between 10 and 20 packages) and this will likely move when gnome 3.6 moves along with the new polkit.

FYI, Tom tried to get hybrid consolekit/logind support upstream into polkit and they refused. This means that - short of forking polkit - we can't do anything to support consolekit any longer.

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#343 2012-10-17 17:18:23

marvn
Member
From: Prague
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 83

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Doorbreath wrote:

I'm confused about when we 'officially' move to systemd. I presumed now that new installations are using it that we had switched but I just had a thread closed as we haven't officially switched yet.

well, as the systemd and old sysVinit scripts can be installed side-by-side, there is no "we" and it's on users when they decide to switch. the change is that systemd is the default init system and will be supported by the devs in the future, while the old init scripts won't be supported and will be removed when the maintainer of given pkg decideds it's the right time to do so...

but if you want date, it's probably 14th of August smile http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 23389.html


core i5 4590, x86_64, nvidia 970

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#344 2012-10-17 20:44:06

Lone_Wolf
Member
From: Netherlands, Europe
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 4,237

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

brain0 wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:

I could easily install a VM for testing initscripts-git and such, but it appears arch projects mailinglist is the same as arch-dev-public :
read-only for non-devs .

The list is arch-projects, and anyone who subscribes to it can post.

You are correct, i was mislead by the "no user discussion" part on the arch-projects page :

About arch-projects    
English (USA)

Development discussion, patches and pull requests for the Arch Linux projects: initscripts, netcfg, devtools, dbscripts.

No user discussion!

It took me a few tries to figure out i needed to use certain tags in the subject line, but that's all.
Thank you for pointing this out.

[ADDED]

DISCLAIMER
Everything below that is not quoted from other posters is my PERSONAL opinion.
While i do believe i am right and will search for relevant quotes to back my opinion , until i do you shoull treat it as :
a purely personal opinion

[/ADDED]



brain0 wrote:
Lone_Wolf wrote:

Sidenote :
There are several things i dislike about systemd, especially the things they have taken over from other projects (or intend to take over) like udev, ck , polkit, display managers.

I don't see any takeover of display managers or polkit. Systemd absorbed udev and replaced consolekit with logind.

In the past days i've read all blog posts about systemd by mr Poettering, including the comments.
From that i got a strong impression that replacing gdm/kdm/slim/xdm and polkit are next on the (possibly fictional) list of "things to add to systemd"

@wormzy :
In the comments to the blog posts mr poettering did mention that any new additions/improvements to udev would be accepted only if they benefitted systemd.
He also named the main reason to absorb udev into systemd : to force more people to switch to systemd as systemd acceptance was not progressing fast enough.
sorry, can't find the exact comments where this was said by him.

Combining both statements imo translates to :
Udev is now systemd's property, and all non-systemd use of udev must stop asap.

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2012-10-17 22:39:36)


Booting with apg Openrc, NOT systemd.
Automounting : not needed, i prefer pmount
Aur helpers : makepkg + my own local repo === rarely need them

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#345 2012-10-17 21:26:44

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

@Lone_Wolf, I think that you are wrong about the "non-systemd use of udev must stop asap".  I have read in numerous places that udev will still be supported on its own, but that it will not be improved without the benefit of systemd.  So it will still be entirely possible to still use udev without systemd, and it will not even have to be hacked into submission.

Also, I would really be interested in seeing the post by Lennart stating that his intent in merging systemd with udev was the "force more people to switch to systemd".  If you find that specific blog post/comment thread, please post a link.

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#346 2012-10-17 21:51:18

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Lone_Wolf wrote:

From that i got a strong impression that replacing gdm/kdm/slim/xdm and polkit are next on the (possibly fictional) list of "things to add to systemd"

I don't think adding polkit to systemd makes any sense, nor have I heard anyone talk about that. Moreover, systemd makes extensive use of polkit, which itself is under active development. Do you have a reference to this polkit discussion?

There are no plans (afaik) to take over the job of gdm/kdm/.... Do you have a reference? What you might have seen is that systemd will be able to take over the job of the session manager from xfce-session/kdeinit/"whatever they are all called". Which will be awesome when it finally gets done.

In the comments to the blog posts mr poettering did mention that any new additions/improvements to udev would be accepted only if they benefitted systemd.

I'm pretty sure you must have misread that, or are misrepresenting the statements. Besides, udev is mostly being taken care of by Kay, not by Lennart. Without a reference it is hard to comment though.

He also named the main reason to absorb udev into systemd : to force more people to switch to systemd as systemd acceptance was not progressing fast enough.

Please provide a reference. There is no way this is a correct quote.

sorry, can't find the exact comments where this was said by him.

If you want to be taken seriously I suggest you don't make highly controversial/implausible claims without being able to provide the references...

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#347 2012-10-17 21:57:18

dolby
Member
From: 1992
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 1,581

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Continuing from https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=150855 which is closed.
If syslog-ng is removed from base shouldnt the same be done for logrotate? I dont think its capable of working with systemd's journal, is it?

edit: fix typo

Last edited by dolby (2012-10-17 22:06:21)


There shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or vi -- mg (1)
[You learn that sarcasm does not often work well in international forums.  That is why we avoid it. -- ewaller (arch linux forum moderator)

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#348 2012-10-17 21:58:46

alphaniner
Member
From: Ancapistan
Registered: 2010-07-12
Posts: 2,644

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

tomegun wrote:

What you might have seen is that systemd will be able to take over the job of the session manager...

For example, in this interview (10th question).


But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.
-Lysander Spooner

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#349 2012-10-17 22:02:18

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

alphaniner wrote:
tomegun wrote:

What you might have seen is that systemd will be able to take over the job of the session manager...

For example, in this interview (10th question).

Exactly. Note that this has nothing to do with the desktop manager, only with the session manager :-)

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#350 2012-10-17 22:37:25

Lone_Wolf
Member
From: Netherlands, Europe
Registered: 2005-10-04
Posts: 4,237

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

tomegun wrote:

If you want to be taken seriously I suggest you don't make highly controversial/implausible claims without being able to provide the references...

Added a disclaimer to my post 344

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2012-10-17 22:41:12)


Booting with apg Openrc, NOT systemd.
Automounting : not needed, i prefer pmount
Aur helpers : makepkg + my own local repo === rarely need them

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