Archlinux is moving to systemd

utops · 2012-10-16 12:57:29

I like systemd in general,one thing i dislike is kind of randomness in boot initialization - sometimes is just 9 sec another time13 and once for boot it can't find my root partition.
That third random event maybe is related to my schizophrenic bios,or just my hdd is simply go nuts - it's almost 6 years i own it.
But initscript never whining about this so it's MISTERY.

zb3 · 2012-10-17 05:55:45

lesha-ssh wrote:

For a long years Archlinux WAS my favorite linux distibutive. Because it was simple and powerfull, flexible configurabe. It was really best choise for home and for server! And now, archlinux turning into ....even not Unbutu, Arch turning into Windows!!
RIP, beloved ARCH!
P.S.: I WISH LENNART POETTERING TO GO TO HELL!!!

You can still use it, just recompile packages depending on systemd. It is still easier than LFS(I prefer that one).
I agree that RH wants to turn linux into tightly coupled bloatware....

(He is not the source of that, he's just a RH's toy....)

jasonwryan · 2012-10-17 05:59:25

Why are you feeding the troll? And your comments about Red Hat are unwelcome as well:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo … ng_Systems

tomk · 2012-10-17 07:04:06

utops wrote:

I like systemd in general,one thing i dislike is kind of randomness in boot initialization - sometimes is just 9 sec another time13 and once for boot it can't find my root partition.
That third random event maybe is related to my schizophrenic bios,or just my hdd is simply go nuts - it's almost 6 years i own it.
But initscript never whining about this so it's MISTERY.

Use the tools provided to examine/analyse/debug your issue - details in the man and wiki pages.

kinleyd · 2012-10-17 08:05:08

In describing the steps for shifting to systemd the wiki clearly covers rc scripts. I don't recall anything pertaining to xinetd scripts being mentioned as a part of this process. However, I have seen some mention elsewhere of xinetd in the context of systemd, as well as in an earlier comment by brain0 regarding the clean up of unneeded scripts [NoExtract=/etc/rc.d/* /etc/xinetd.d/*]. Can anyone tell me if I've missed anything with regard to xinetd scripts that need to be done before cleaning them out? Thanks.

Lone_Wolf · 2012-10-17 11:25:26

Mr.Elendig wrote:

Super secret inside information, burn after reading.

I've read that thread, but nobody seems to have stepped up.

I could easily install a VM for testing initscripts-git and such, but it appears arch projects mailinglist is the same as arch-dev-public :
read-only for non-devs .
Hard to contribute without being able to post to that mailing list ....

Sidenote :
There are several things i dislike about systemd, especially the things they have taken over from other projects (or intend to take over) like udev, ck , polkit, display managers .

Systemd has many good things in it's design, if systemd development had focused on making a replacement for PID1 as was the original intention instead of becoming a session manager for both kernelspace AND userspace , i'd probably be a supporter of it.

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2012-10-17 11:26:42)

brain0 · 2012-10-17 12:06:58

kinleyd wrote:

In describing the steps for shifting to systemd the wiki clearly covers rc scripts. I don't recall anything pertaining to xinetd scripts being mentioned as a part of this process. However, I have seen some mention elsewhere of xinetd in the context of systemd, as well as in an earlier comment by brain0 regarding the clean up of unneeded scripts [NoExtract=/etc/rc.d/* /etc/xinetd.d/*]. Can anyone tell me if I've missed anything with regard to xinetd scripts that need to be done before cleaning them out? Thanks.

Systemd can start services on demand and obsoletes most of the xinetd functionality. I have xinetd uninstalled now. For example, I use xinetd for git now:

systemctl enable git-daemon.socket

This is basically the same as enabling the git-daemon xinetd file.

brain0 · 2012-10-17 12:09:12

Lone_Wolf wrote:

I could easily install a VM for testing initscripts-git and such, but it appears arch projects mailinglist is the same as arch-dev-public :
read-only for non-devs .

The list is arch-projects, and anyone who subscribes to it can post.

Lone_Wolf wrote:

Sidenote :
There are several things i dislike about systemd, especially the things they have taken over from other projects (or intend to take over) like udev, ck , polkit, display managers.

I don't see any takeover of display managers or polkit. Systemd absorbed udev and replaced consolekit with logind.

San2ban · 2012-10-17 14:45:07

Thatis the point, why should systemd absorb udev? Earlier, was it like this?

WorMzy · 2012-10-17 15:26:37

Hasn't this already been covered? http://lwn.net/Articles/490413/

I thought you left anyway? Why are you sending me spam PMs?

kinleyd · 2012-10-17 15:58:24

Thanks brain0, I'm getting the picture now.

Doorbreath · 2012-10-17 16:00:17

I'm confused about when we 'officially' move to systemd. I presumed now that new installations are using it that we had switched but I just had a thread closed as we haven't officially switched yet.

nierro · 2012-10-17 16:14:02

We already switched : systemd-sysvcompat and systemd are in core, while "initscripts" is in extra. what else? We're waiting for gnome3.6 to move in testing and then in extra, with all of its rebuilt packages, such as networkmanager, polkit etc etc, with systemd-only support. Then will be switched at 100%.

D4ve · 2012-10-17 16:39:21

Is there a rough estimate of how long it will take to get gnome3.6 to extra?

karol · 2012-10-17 16:41:40

D4ve wrote:

Is there a rough estimate of how long it will take to get gnome3.6 to extra?

No https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 7#p1176837

Jristz · 2012-10-17 16:43:14

when it ready -Allan

But I ask the upcoming are the neede for a pure systemd right or now (alongside removing initscripts) what is the others thinks that I can make for make a Mostest pure (for now) systemd system

brain0 · 2012-10-17 17:05:05

I hope the consolekit removal happens rather sonner than later. Locally, I already rebuilt the last user of consolekit (kdebase-workspace) without consolekit support, and my polkit (still patched for hybrid consolekit and logind support) does its job well.

In our staging repository, consolekit support is removed everywhere (somewhat between 10 and 20 packages) and this will likely move when gnome 3.6 moves along with the new polkit.

FYI, Tom tried to get hybrid consolekit/logind support upstream into polkit and they refused. This means that - short of forking polkit - we can't do anything to support consolekit any longer.

marvn · 2012-10-17 17:18:23

Doorbreath wrote:

I'm confused about when we 'officially' move to systemd. I presumed now that new installations are using it that we had switched but I just had a thread closed as we haven't officially switched yet.

well, as the systemd and old sysVinit scripts can be installed side-by-side, there is no "we" and it's on users when they decide to switch. the change is that systemd is the default init system and will be supported by the devs in the future, while the old init scripts won't be supported and will be removed when the maintainer of given pkg decideds it's the right time to do so...

but if you want date, it's probably 14th of August http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 23389.html

Lone_Wolf · 2012-10-17 20:44:06

brain0 wrote:

Lone_Wolf wrote:
I could easily install a VM for testing initscripts-git and such, but it appears arch projects mailinglist is the same as arch-dev-public :
read-only for non-devs .
The list is arch-projects, and anyone who subscribes to it can post.

You are correct, i was mislead by the "no user discussion" part on the arch-projects page :

About arch-projects
English (USA)
Development discussion, patches and pull requests for the Arch Linux projects: initscripts, netcfg, devtools, dbscripts.
No user discussion!

It took me a few tries to figure out i needed to use certain tags in the subject line, but that's all.
Thank you for pointing this out.

[ADDED]

DISCLAIMER
Everything below that is not quoted from other posters is my PERSONAL opinion.
While i do believe i am right and will search for relevant quotes to back my opinion , until i do you shoull treat it as :
a purely personal opinion

[/ADDED]

brain0 wrote:

Lone_Wolf wrote:
Sidenote :
There are several things i dislike about systemd, especially the things they have taken over from other projects (or intend to take over) like udev, ck , polkit, display managers.
I don't see any takeover of display managers or polkit. Systemd absorbed udev and replaced consolekit with logind.

In the past days i've read all blog posts about systemd by mr Poettering, including the comments.
From that i got a strong impression that replacing gdm/kdm/slim/xdm and polkit are next on the (possibly fictional) list of "things to add to systemd"

@wormzy :
In the comments to the blog posts mr poettering did mention that any new additions/improvements to udev would be accepted only if they benefitted systemd.
He also named the main reason to absorb udev into systemd : to force more people to switch to systemd as systemd acceptance was not progressing fast enough.
sorry, can't find the exact comments where this was said by him.

Combining both statements imo translates to :
Udev is now systemd's property, and all non-systemd use of udev must stop asap.

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2012-10-17 22:39:36)

WonderWoofy · 2012-10-17 21:26:44

@Lone_Wolf, I think that you are wrong about the "non-systemd use of udev must stop asap". I have read in numerous places that udev will still be supported on its own, but that it will not be improved without the benefit of systemd. So it will still be entirely possible to still use udev without systemd, and it will not even have to be hacked into submission.

Also, I would really be interested in seeing the post by Lennart stating that his intent in merging systemd with udev was the "force more people to switch to systemd". If you find that specific blog post/comment thread, please post a link.

tomegun · 2012-10-17 21:51:18

Lone_Wolf wrote:

From that i got a strong impression that replacing gdm/kdm/slim/xdm and polkit are next on the (possibly fictional) list of "things to add to systemd"

I don't think adding polkit to systemd makes any sense, nor have I heard anyone talk about that. Moreover, systemd makes extensive use of polkit, which itself is under active development. Do you have a reference to this polkit discussion?

There are no plans (afaik) to take over the job of gdm/kdm/.... Do you have a reference? What you might have seen is that systemd will be able to take over the job of the session manager from xfce-session/kdeinit/"whatever they are all called". Which will be awesome when it finally gets done.

In the comments to the blog posts mr poettering did mention that any new additions/improvements to udev would be accepted only if they benefitted systemd.

I'm pretty sure you must have misread that, or are misrepresenting the statements. Besides, udev is mostly being taken care of by Kay, not by Lennart. Without a reference it is hard to comment though.

He also named the main reason to absorb udev into systemd : to force more people to switch to systemd as systemd acceptance was not progressing fast enough.

Please provide a reference. There is no way this is a correct quote.

sorry, can't find the exact comments where this was said by him.

If you want to be taken seriously I suggest you don't make highly controversial/implausible claims without being able to provide the references...

dolby · 2012-10-17 21:57:18

Continuing from https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=150855 which is closed.
If syslog-ng is removed from base shouldnt the same be done for logrotate? I dont think its capable of working with systemd's journal, is it?

edit: fix typo

Last edited by dolby (2012-10-17 22:06:21)

alphaniner · 2012-10-17 21:58:46

tomegun wrote:

What you might have seen is that systemd will be able to take over the job of the session manager...

For example, in this interview (10th question).

tomegun · 2012-10-17 22:02:18

alphaniner wrote:

tomegun wrote:
What you might have seen is that systemd will be able to take over the job of the session manager...
For example, in this interview (10th question).

Exactly. Note that this has nothing to do with the desktop manager, only with the session manager :-)

Lone_Wolf · 2012-10-17 22:37:25

tomegun wrote:

If you want to be taken seriously I suggest you don't make highly controversial/implausible claims without being able to provide the references...

Added a disclaimer to my post 344

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2012-10-17 22:41:12)

Arch Linux

#326 2012-10-16 12:57:29

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#327 2012-10-17 05:55:45

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#328 2012-10-17 05:59:25

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#329 2012-10-17 07:04:06

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#330 2012-10-17 08:05:08

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#331 2012-10-17 11:25:26

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#332 2012-10-17 12:06:58

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#333 2012-10-17 12:09:12

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#334 2012-10-17 14:45:07

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#335 2012-10-17 15:26:37

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#336 2012-10-17 15:58:24

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#337 2012-10-17 16:00:17

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#338 2012-10-17 16:14:02

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#339 2012-10-17 16:39:21

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#340 2012-10-17 16:41:40

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#341 2012-10-17 16:43:14

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#342 2012-10-17 17:05:05

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#343 2012-10-17 17:18:23

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#344 2012-10-17 20:44:06

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#345 2012-10-17 21:26:44

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#346 2012-10-17 21:51:18

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#347 2012-10-17 21:57:18

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#348 2012-10-17 21:58:46

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#349 2012-10-17 22:02:18

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

#350 2012-10-17 22:37:25

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

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