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#101 2013-02-06 14:57:50

pskept
Member
From: pineal gland
Registered: 2011-03-18
Posts: 32

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

bsd init wink

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#102 2013-02-07 12:32:41

BKLive
Member
From: Georgia
Registered: 2008-01-28
Posts: 125

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

a monetary benefactor who lacks "creative vision" and leaves that to the people who have been entrenched in the development of linux for the past two decades.

so... a cash cow.


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#103 2013-02-07 12:36:07

jakobcreutzfeldt
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,031

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

BKLive wrote:

a monetary benefactor who lacks "creative vision" and leaves that to the people who have been entrenched in the development of linux for the past two decades.

so... a sugar daddy.

fixed

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#104 2013-02-07 14:46:19

eruditorum
Member
Registered: 2012-11-12
Posts: 130

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

drcouzelis wrote:

Good default settings

This

pskept wrote:

bsd init wink

And this.

Personally I think it lacks conforming to any STANDARTS (as it is with init system for example).
Qt seems to do a good job as gtk3 (already dead) is incredibly ugly and totally broken compared to GTK2 (which was and is really nice).

Today's GNU/Linux has got infinite possibilities for programmers, but nothing for ordinary users: everyone makes everything for themselves, not caring about USERS.
The fact is: it is hacker's/admin's/programmer's OS, not designed for typical user-friendly-OS consumers.
No solid user-oriented get-job-done-without-problems software causes shit-coding tons of "partially working" crap!

What a shame to be consumer in opensource world sad(


P.S.: If whole system is designed in DIY paradigm then any attempt of persuading someone to use YOUR THING will eventually fail.
That is, GNU/Linux is build-and-hack-it-yourself system for enthusiasts and my word is that if you're real nonconformist then you will never find a distro suited for your needs. ALL DISTROS SUCK UNTIL YOU BUILD YOUR OWN.

Last edited by eruditorum (2013-02-07 15:13:48)

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#105 2013-02-07 15:37:35

kaszak696
Member
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 543

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

eruditorum wrote:

Personally I think it lacks conforming to any STANDARTS (as it is with init system for example).

How is BSD-style init more 'standarized' than any other flavor of init? Is there some ISO or POSIX standard for this?

Qt seems to do a good job as gtk3 (already dead) is incredibly ugly and totally broken compared to GTK2 (which was and is really nice).

GTK3 isn't dead, as far as i know.

Today's GNU/Linux has got infinite possibilities for programmers, but nothing for ordinary users: everyone makes everything for themselves, not caring about USERS.

Best of tools were made that way, for example Vim, C, Perl. Define your 'user'.

The fact is: it is hacker's/admin's/programmer's OS, not designed for typical user-friendly-OS consumers.

It doesn't have to be an user-friendly-OS, it's not a commercial software, where these things matter.

No solid user-oriented get-job-done-without-problems software causes shit-coding tons of "partially working" crap!

You just described this kind of software, anything that tries to think for it's user will cause problems sooner or later.

What a shame to be consumer in opensource world sad(

If you want to be a consumer, go 'consume' some Windows or OSX.

P.S.: If whole system is designed in DIY paradigm then any attempt of persuading someone to use YOUR THING will eventually fail.

No persuasion needed, anyone CAN use whatever thay want, what's your point?

That is, GNU/Linux is build-and-hack-it-yourself system for enthusiasts and my word is that if you're real nonconformist then you will never find a distro suited for your needs. ALL DISTROS SUCK UNTIL YOU BUILD YOUR OWN.

You are complaining that you CAN build your own distro or what? What's wrong in being able to help yourself and create something that will be more useful for you than any kind of stock setup?


'What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.' - Christopher Hitchens
'There's no such thing as addiction, there's only things that you enjoy doing more than life.' - Doug Stanhope
GitHub Junkyard

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#106 2013-02-07 15:43:42

jakobcreutzfeldt
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,031

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

I think the principal disconnect for eruditorum is that he/she is viewing the software as the actual tool, when it's not. The computer is the tool and the software is a means of using that tool. When people need to get something done, they use the tool in the appropriate way. If it doesn't work they way the need it to, then they change the way they use the tool. "Consumers" coming from Windows or Mac tend to expect to be told how they should use their tool, I think. They expect to be handed software that does everything perfectly, where "perfect" is defined by some well-funded corporation. GNU/Linux users prefer to roll their own solutions or use the next best thing when the imperfections don't impede them too much.

Something like that.

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#107 2013-02-07 15:50:53

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

kaszak696 wrote:

It doesn't have to be an user-friendly-OS, it's not a commercial software, where these things matter.

Of course not. However, if one thinks Linux is missing commerical software*, then Linux needs to be serious contender to Windows/OSX and thus need to be more appealing to the masses.

* if you have no need for commercial software like MS Office, games, etc then that is fine. But some people do want such things.

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#108 2013-02-07 16:01:10

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,391
Website

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

kaszak696 wrote:
eruditorum wrote:

Some opinions!

Your opinions are wrong!

Please keep in mind that this thread is, by definition, full of people's opinions. Opinions are never "wrong", they're just opinions. wink

And in my opinion Linux is missing an open source 3D first person shooter with a single player story mode. The multiplayer first person shooter games are fun to play with friends, but I don't have any friends.

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#109 2013-02-07 16:02:56

jakobcreutzfeldt
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,031

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

drcouzelis wrote:

And in my opinion Linux is missing an open source 3D first person shooter with a single player story mode. The multiplayer first person shooter games are fun to play with friends, but I don't have any friends.

In that theme, we're missing a sandbox RPG with a solid story line and plenty of side quests for me to get lost in (basically, an Elder Scrolls game). We have plenty of hack-and-slash but no real substance.

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#110 2013-02-07 16:06:05

chris_l
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 387

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

@eruditorum: please read http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

New users come to Linux after spending their lives using an OS where the end-user's needs are paramount, and "user friendly" and "customer focus" are considered veritable Holy Grails. And they suddenly find themselves using an OS that still relies on 'man' files, the command-line, hand-edited configuration files, and Google. And when they complain, they don't get coddled or promised better things: They get bluntly shown the door.

That's an exaggeration, of course. But it is how a lot of potential Linux converts perceived things when they tried and failed to make the switch.
(...)
Linux is not interested in market share. Linux does not have customers. Linux does not have shareholders, or a responsibility to the bottom line. Linux was not created to make money. Linux does not have the goal of being the most popular and widespread OS on the planet.
(...)
The point is to make Linux the best OS that the community is capable of making. Not for other people: For itself. The oh-so-common threats of "Linux will never take over the desktop unless it does such-and-such" are simply irrelevant: The Linux community isn't trying to take over the desktop. They really don't care if it gets good enough to make it onto your desktop, so long as it stays good enough to remain on theirs. The highly-vocal MS-haters, pro-Linux zealots, and money-making FOSS purveyors might be loud, but they're still minorities.

If you think being a "consumer" at linux sucks, then you probably are not on the correct place. If people need MS office, photoshop, etc working flawlessly (so wine is not enough for them) and want a simple interface that requires no command line at all, well,  that's fine. Is not a bad thing or a sin or something. But why they complicate themselves trying to do it under linux?
Just use windows and thats it.


"open source is about choice"
No.
Open source is about opening the source code complying with this conditions, period. The ability to choose among several packages is just a nice side effect.

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#111 2013-02-07 16:15:18

kaszak696
Member
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 543

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

drcouzelis wrote:

Opinions are never "wrong", they're just opinions. wink

Sure, but they can be a subject to a discussion if expressed in public.
I guess i was a little too harsh, need to tone down my zealotry tongue


'What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.' - Christopher Hitchens
'There's no such thing as addiction, there's only things that you enjoy doing more than life.' - Doug Stanhope
GitHub Junkyard

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#112 2013-02-07 16:32:51

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,391
Website

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

jakobcreutzfeldt wrote:

In that theme, we're missing a sandbox RPG with a solid story line and plenty of side quests for me to get lost in (basically, an Elder Scrolls game). We have plenty of hack-and-slash but no real substance.

Every couple years I play through Anothell: Waste's Edge. It's a 2D "RPG" with a story and characters, and is challenging and fun and I always get "lost" in it. smile Unfortunately, it doesn't have any battles or any concept of a "game over", and it only takes a few hours (at most) to play through. tongue

Adonthell itself is an open source RPG engine, and Waste's Edge is a demo to show some of its capabilities. I always hope to find a complete RPG made with Adonthell, but alas, that day has not come. sad

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#113 2013-02-08 02:33:11

boast
Member
Registered: 2010-09-28
Posts: 219

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

chris_l wrote:

If you think being a "consumer" at linux sucks, then you probably are not on the correct place. If people need MS office, photoshop, etc working flawlessly (so wine is not enough for them) and want a simple interface that requires no command line at all, well,  that's fine. Is not a bad thing or a sin or something. But why they complicate themselves trying to do it under linux?
Just use windows and thats it.

Because linux provides you the freedom to complicate yourself. Minus the kernel, no one has direct control over the vision or direction of linux. No one has the power to say "linux is not for gaming, use windows," or "linux is not for video editing/graphics, use windows." It's more like "linux is whatever I want it to be- be it a router, a NAS, a desktop, or a gaming console." And all they need for this to happen is the developers.

Last edited by boast (2013-02-08 02:34:37)


Asus M4A785TD-V ;; Phenom II X4 @ 3.9GHz ;; Ripjaws 12GB DDR3-1600 ;; 128GB Samsung 830 ;; MSI GTX460 v2 w/ blob ;; Arch Linux + KDE 4.x

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#114 2013-02-08 03:33:01

arinlares
Member
From: Anaheim, CA
Registered: 2010-02-01
Posts: 165
Website

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

drcouzelis wrote:
kaszak696 wrote:
eruditorum wrote:

Some opinions!

Your opinions are wrong!

Please keep in mind that this thread is, by definition, full of people's opinions. Opinions are never "wrong", they're just opinions. wink

And in my opinion Linux is missing an open source 3D first person shooter with a single player story mode. The multiplayer first person shooter games are fun to play with friends, but I don't have any friends.

Sauerbraten sort of has a story mode.  But I'm sure you've tried that.

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#115 2013-02-08 03:58:05

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,391
Website

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

arinlares wrote:

Sauerbraten sort of has a story mode.  But I'm sure you've tried that.

You know, I did, but I think something was wrong... Well, I remember trying two single player FPS for Linux. In one, I couldn't figure out where to go in the first level. In the other one, the enemies were... strange. As soon as I entered a room, every enemy would start running towards me. So I would, like, try to kill some, but then there would be too many, so I'd run away, and I'd have, like 30 enemies chasing me around the room.

Maybe I should try again. Maybe I just stink at FPS games. tongue

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#116 2013-02-08 07:19:16

chris_l
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 387

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

boast wrote:

Because linux provides you the freedom to complicate yourself. Minus the kernel, no one has direct control over the vision or direction of linux. No one has the power to say "linux is not for gaming, use windows," or "linux is not for video editing/graphics, use windows." It's more like "linux is whatever I want it to be- be it a router, a NAS, a desktop, or a gaming console." And all they need for this to happen is the developers.

hm? of course, linux is for whatever you want to hack it, but I wasn't talking about hackers, developers, or regular linux users; the people like us who like to hack their system (or "complicate ourselves" like some people like to think). I was talking about the people who do not want to complicate themselves, people with a consumer attitude.

In the end, I was talking about ideas from the Linux is Not Windows article I mentioned before. Check it out, is a good article.

Quoting (again) the article, one of the last sentences:

If you really just want Windows without the malware and security issues: Read up on good security practices; install a good firewall, malware-detector, and anti-virus; replace IE with a more secure browser; and keep yourself up-to-date with security updates. There are people out there (myself included) who've used Windows since 3.1 days right through to XP without ever being infected with a virus or malware: you can do it too. Don't get Linux: It will fail miserably at being what you want it to be.

Just like when a person who post in this forums and demostrates a lack of interest to learn the skills to manually configure their system, get recommended to better use another distro instead of arch (and btw, doing it is not to annoy, but is an honest intent to help), is also ok to recommend people to better use windows or macosx when they demostrate a lack of interest on learning any different interface or they are unwilling to use anything but photoshop or msoffice flawlessly, or who demostrate a more consumer-oriented attitude.

Now, on the other hand, once THIS becomes mature enough, well, probably is something that maybe would be a good idea to recommend to that kind of people.

All of this is, of course, IMHO.


"open source is about choice"
No.
Open source is about opening the source code complying with this conditions, period. The ability to choose among several packages is just a nice side effect.

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#117 2013-02-08 08:21:08

theGunslinger
Member
Registered: 2011-05-20
Posts: 298

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

jakobcreutzfeldt wrote:
drcouzelis wrote:

And in my opinion Linux is missing an open source 3D first person shooter with a single player story mode. The multiplayer first person shooter games are fun to play with friends, but I don't have any friends.

In that theme, we're missing a sandbox RPG with a solid story line and plenty of side quests for me to get lost in (basically, an Elder Scrolls game). We have plenty of hack-and-slash but no real substance.

You should follow the OpenMW project, they're not there yet but progress is made.

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#118 2013-02-08 10:29:24

jakobcreutzfeldt
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,031

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

theGunslinger wrote:
jakobcreutzfeldt wrote:
drcouzelis wrote:

And in my opinion Linux is missing an open source 3D first person shooter with a single player story mode. The multiplayer first person shooter games are fun to play with friends, but I don't have any friends.

In that theme, we're missing a sandbox RPG with a solid story line and plenty of side quests for me to get lost in (basically, an Elder Scrolls game). We have plenty of hack-and-slash but no real substance.

You should follow the OpenMW project, they're not there yet but progress is made.

I'm keeping my eye on it. Unfortunately, I lent my Morrowind discs to a friend but then I forgot to get them back and then I moved to a different continent. That was over 5 years ago...probably never going to get them back now.

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#119 2013-02-08 11:30:19

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

BKLive wrote:

a monetary benefactor who lacks "creative vision" and leaves that to the people who have been entrenched in the development of linux for the past two decades.

so... a cash cow.

Like Mark Shuttleworth?

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#120 2013-02-08 16:08:24

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

chris_l wrote:

~snip~

So in other words you should choose your OS based on the programs you want or you should accept the programs that are available for your OS. And asking for BOTH an OS and programs you want (can) lead to a poor experience?

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#121 2013-02-08 16:37:30

chris_l
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 387

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

anonymous_user wrote:
chris_l wrote:

~snip~

So in other words you should choose your OS based on the programs you want or you should accept the programs that are available for your OS. And asking for BOTH an OS and programs you want (can) lead to a poor experience?

No, I said you should choose your OS based on your attitude.


"open source is about choice"
No.
Open source is about opening the source code complying with this conditions, period. The ability to choose among several packages is just a nice side effect.

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#122 2013-02-08 18:08:35

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

Is wanting a specific program a part of attitude then?

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#123 2013-02-08 19:28:36

chris_l
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 387

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

hmm again about wanting a program.

My comment was just a response to eruditorum. He said:

eruditorum wrote:

What a shame to be consumer in opensource world

A person with a consumer attitude will find any small problem unacceptable, and will demand developers to fix it. Thats the kind of people that is better using windows or osx.

If a user who is interested in the linux benefits but desires X propietary program, then I don't think is a bad idea they use linux. A person like that will probably run it on wine, and, as long glitches are small and wont stop him from doing its job, he'll be happy.


"open source is about choice"
No.
Open source is about opening the source code complying with this conditions, period. The ability to choose among several packages is just a nice side effect.

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#124 2013-02-08 21:57:43

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

chris_l wrote:

hmm again about wanting a program.

My comment was just a response to eruditorum.

Oops I read too fast.

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#125 2013-02-08 23:04:13

chris_l
Member
Registered: 2010-12-01
Posts: 387

Re: something that you feel linux is missing

anonymous_user wrote:

Oops I read too fast.

Ahh! no problem, that has happen to me a lot big_smile
Hahaha...ha... sad yeah...


"open source is about choice"
No.
Open source is about opening the source code complying with this conditions, period. The ability to choose among several packages is just a nice side effect.

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