wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

dmmackay · 2013-05-16 18:14:24

I have been running Arch for the last month on a XPS 13 (second ultrabook HD model). I was waiting for kernel 3.9 hoping it would fix my networking problems. This is the Dell model they worked with Ubuntu on, and the drivers were to be built into 3.9.

I have been having a lot of wifi problems. It randomly will slow down or completely drop connection even though the tray icon shows it is working (Gnome 3.8). Kernel 3.9 hasn't fixed the wifi so I started doing some reading.

I have read that disabling network.target will fix it. It does seem to have some improvement, but still drops connection. The very odd behavior is if I disable NetworkManager.service and use wpa_supplicant (I never had any issues during install so figured I would try it) it is rock solid. I have been running for hours with no drops, not even slow downs. I can run more then 15 minutes with NetworkManager.service.

Any ideas why this may be happening? Is there an issue with Gnome NetworkManager.service?

And is network.target needed? I have read conflicting info on it saying you don't need it if NetworkManager is running, but others say you shouldn't disable it.

Thanks,
Mike

WonderWoofy · 2013-05-16 18:20:36

No mention of the actual HW that you are using? No mention of why you might want to disable network.target?

Network.target is used for dependency purposes. It has nothing to do with the functionality of networkmanager other than being pulled in to indicate the establishment of network connectivity on the machine. So I am really not sure what you hope to achieve by disabling it.

Honestly, if NetworkManager does not function quite right, then I fail to see why you don't just start trying other network managers to see if there is something that offers more consistency. If you did that, at least you could then try to determine what the differences are between the two. But as it is now, the only information you have provided is that networkmanager sucks for you and wpa_supplicant does not.

You could at the very least indicate what you are using to obtain an IP address, paritcularly when using wpa_supplicant. This is because the wiki instructions probably tell you to use dhcpcd if you get your IP via dhcp. NetworkManager on the other hand uses dhclient by default.

So I think that until you can provide a bit of information about what exactly it is that you are doing and have tried, little help can come of this thread.

Edit: BTW, welcome to the forums.

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2013-05-16 18:21:01)

Trilby · 2013-05-16 18:29:50

WonderWoofy wrote:

Edit: BTW, welcome to the forums.

dmmackay, you've now been properly hazed and initiated

WW's critiques are quite right, though. The *buntus often make it hard to get the relevant information for troubleshooting, there is a lot of 'magic' behind the scenese users are not supposed to know about. Archlinux is a strong contrast to that - users are expected to know all the details, and the tools are provided to get that information.

dmmackay · 2013-05-16 18:59:06

Lol. If that is hazing, these forums will be a joy.

I wasn't sure how much or how little info to give as it was more generic about wpa_supplicant vs NetworkManager. I know sometimes to much information can annoy and leave things unanswered.

My hardware as per lspci is: Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Advanced-N 6235 (rev 24) Is this what would be appropriate to provide?

When I use wpa_supplicant I use dhcpcd. That is all I have read about, was unaware of dhclient.

As for why I disabled network.target. I read on another distro forum that they both shouldn't be enabled. I questioned that as it works fine with wpa_supplicant. I have reenabled it and assume the improvement was just random.

I have used linux in the past (actually long past, back in the mandrake era) and then haven't much until recently. I haven't used *buntus, I bought this laptop as I assumed it would be decent hardware for linux due to Dell working with Ubuntu on it and drivers being included in the future kernels.

I followed the beginners guide to install, and have been reading various wiki articles but haven't found much info on details of network inner workings.

I chose Arch as I want to learn those inner workings, but it will take some time I am sure.... I just found it odd that one would be very stable and another would be so very unstable. I will do some reading on alternative network managers. I was just hoping to have a gui in Gnome to manage my wifi as I have recently returned to school (comp sci) and want to monitor my network status while on the move. Plus the school uses one wifi network, and our CS society has there own with differing wifi encryption and I am not that proficient in shell yet to be managing them both.

Thanks for you responses and I apologize for my newbness (is that a word?)

ewaller · 2013-05-16 19:08:41

As a sanity check, could you post the output of systemctl ?? I've a hunch you've more than one thing trying to control the operation of that NIC. Multiple "Hidden Hands" can do bad things.

dmmackay · 2013-05-16 19:19:53

Sure. I really need to read up on this systemd stuff. Hope this is what you wanted.

UNIT                        LOAD   ACTIVE SUB       DESCRIPTION
proc-sys...t_misc.automount loaded active running   Arbitrary Executable File Formats File System Automount Point
sys-devi...und-card0.device loaded active plugged   7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller
sys-devi...et-wlp1s0.device loaded active plugged   Centrino Advanced-N 6235 AGN
sys-devi...ooth-hci0.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb4/4-1/4-1.5/4-1.5:1.0/bluetooth/hci0
sys-devi...-sda-sda1.device loaded active plugged   LITEONIT_LMT-256M3M_mSATA_256GB
sys-devi...-sda-sda2.device loaded active plugged   LITEONIT_LMT-256M3M_mSATA_256GB
sys-devi...-sda-sda3.device loaded active plugged   LITEONIT_LMT-256M3M_mSATA_256GB
sys-devi...block-sda.device loaded active plugged   LITEONIT_LMT-256M3M_mSATA_256GB
sys-devi...tty-ttyS0.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial8250/tty/ttyS0
sys-devi...tty-ttyS1.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial8250/tty/ttyS1
sys-devi...tty-ttyS2.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial8250/tty/ttyS2
sys-devi...tty-ttyS3.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial8250/tty/ttyS3
sys-module-configfs.device  loaded active plugged   /sys/module/configfs
sys-module-fuse.device      loaded active plugged   /sys/module/fuse
sys-subs...ices-hci0.device loaded active plugged   /sys/subsystem/bluetooth/devices/hci0
sys-subs...es-wlp1s0.device loaded active plugged   Centrino Advanced-N 6235 AGN
-.mount                     loaded active mounted   /
boot-efi.mount              loaded active mounted   /boot/efi
Data.mount                  loaded active mounted   /Data
dev-hugepages.mount         loaded active mounted   Huge Pages File System
dev-mqueue.mount            loaded active mounted   POSIX Message Queue File System
proc-sys...infmt_misc.mount loaded active mounted   Arbitrary Executable File Formats File System
run-user-1000-gvfs.mount    loaded active mounted   /run/user/1000/gvfs
sys-kernel-config.mount     loaded active mounted   Configuration File System
sys-kernel-debug.mount      loaded active mounted   Debug File System
tmp.mount                   loaded active mounted   Temporary Directory
systemd-...ord-console.path loaded active waiting   Dispatch Password Requests to Console Directory Watch
systemd-...ssword-wall.path loaded active waiting   Forward Password Requests to Wall Directory Watch
accounts-daemon.service     loaded active running   Accounts Service
colord.service              loaded active running   Manage, Install and Generate Color Profiles
dbus.service                loaded active running   D-Bus System Message Bus
gdm.service                 loaded active running   GNOME Display Manager
polkit.service              loaded active running   Authorization Manager
rtkit-daemon.service        loaded active running   RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service
systemd-binfmt.service      loaded active exited    Set Up Additional Binary Formats
systemd-hostnamed.service   loaded active running   Hostname Service
systemd-journald.service    loaded active running   Journal Service
systemd-localed.service     loaded active running   Locale Service
systemd-logind.service      loaded active running   Login Service
systemd-remount-fs.service  loaded active exited    Remount Root and Kernel File Systems
systemd-sysctl.service      loaded active exited    Apply Kernel Variables
systemd-...es-setup.service loaded active exited    Recreate Volatile Files and Directories
systemd-...-trigger.service loaded active exited    udev Coldplug all Devices
systemd-udevd.service       loaded active running   udev Kernel Device Manager
systemd-...sessions.service loaded active exited    Permit User Sessions
systemd-...le-setup.service loaded active exited    Setup Virtual Console
udisks2.service             loaded active running   Disk Manager
upower.service              loaded active running   Daemon for power management
dbus.socket                 loaded active running   D-Bus System Message Bus Socket
dmeventd.socket             loaded active listening Device-mapper event daemon FIFOs
lvmetad.socket              loaded active listening LVM2 metadata daemon socket
systemd-initctl.socket      loaded active listening /dev/initctl Compatibility Named Pipe
systemd-journald.socket     loaded active running   Journal Socket
systemd-shutdownd.socket    loaded active listening Delayed Shutdown Socket
systemd-...d-control.socket loaded active listening udev Control Socket
systemd-udevd-kernel.socket loaded active running   udev Kernel Socket
basic.target                loaded active active    Basic System
bluetooth.target            loaded active active    Bluetooth
cryptsetup.target           loaded active active    Encrypted Volumes
getty.target                loaded active active    Login Prompts
graphical.target            loaded active active    Graphical Interface
local-fs-pre.target         loaded active active    Local File Systems (Pre)
local-fs.target             loaded active active    Local File Systems
multi-user.target           loaded active active    Multi-User System
paths.target                loaded active active    Paths
remote-fs.target            loaded active active    Remote File Systems
sockets.target              loaded active active    Sockets
sound.target                loaded active active    Sound Card
swap.target                 loaded active active    Swap
sysinit.target              loaded active active    System Initialization
timers.target               loaded active active    Timers
systemd-...iles-clean.timer loaded active waiting   Daily Cleanup of Temporary Directories

LOAD   = Reflects whether the unit definition was properly loaded.
ACTIVE = The high-level unit activation state, i.e. generalization of SUB.
SUB    = The low-level unit activation state, values depend on unit type.

72 loaded units listed. Pass --all to see loaded but inactive units, too.
To show all installed unit files use 'systemctl list-unit-files'.

ewaller · 2013-05-16 19:32:45

Nope, sorry. I don't see anything there that should interfere with NetworkManager.

Not that it is applicable, as your question is about Networkmanager, but NM disappointed me a while back. Depending on my mood, I use netctl or wicd -- Both cause me much less angst than does NM.

roentgen · 2013-05-16 19:48:54

Also with a Dell XPS here and most of the problems seem to be caused by connecting to a wireless N network. If I switch the router to wireless G the connection is quite stable. I have to say though that with the 3.9 linux kernel wireless N seems improved - no disconnects in ~2 days.

WonderWoofy · 2013-05-16 20:12:02

I used to have a 6235, and it worked wonderfully. But I have seen numerous reports that using it in N mode caused some troubles. If you think roentgen's suggestion might help you as well and want to test it, know that you can do it from the client side as well. This can be done when the module is loaded. Do "modinfo iwlwifi" to see all the options the module has when it is loaded. In this case you are looking for the "11n_disable=1" option. The /etc/modprobe.d directory will handle this at boot. For more info on that see the modprobe.d man page.

There was no hazing intended there. It was just an honest post, afterwhich, I realized that I was responding to a first post from you. Sorry if it somehow seemed less than genuine. It was not intended that way.

dmmackay · 2013-05-16 22:18:33

WonderWoofy wrote:

There was no hazing intended there. It was just an honest post, afterwhich, I realized that I was responding to a first post from you. Sorry if it somehow seemed less than genuine. It was not intended that way.

No worries, I took absolutely no offence. I didn't take it as hazing. I don't frequent forums much so need to learn what to and not to post.

It does appear to be very stable with wpa_supplicant and dhcpcd but after suspending it doesn't reconnect, plus there is no gui for me to see the strength.

I will disable N on my laptop and see if that will make NetworkManager any better. Otherwise at this point, I may just do some more reading on wpa_supplicant and some of the other suggestions like netctl and figure out how to work with them.

Can I ask what network managers you both (WonderWoofy & roentge) use(d) with this wifi card?

WonderWoofy · 2013-05-16 22:42:06

I am kind of like ewaller, though I switch between netctl, connman, and NetworkManager. If you are the GUI type and all that, wicd offers a nice combination of network daemon, and a dock icon. It is split into two packages to appease us CLI only whiners (that includes me), so there is a wicd package and a wicd-gtk package.

It is super easy to try wicd. Just install it, and then stop NetworkManager (and any other network management solution you may have going, this includes killing any dhcpcd or dhclient processes), then use systemctl to start wicd. After it has started, which should be more or less instant, use "wicd-curses" and it give you a nice ncurses "GUI" that you can use. Or if you want the gui right away, just run wicd-gtk as well and a dock icon should appear.

Beware that if you use wicd, when it first scans for networks when you bring up the ncurses program, it will refresh several times, making it very hard to select your network for the first few moments. Be patient, as you only need to do this part once. Wicd will also allow you to choose which dhcp client you wish to use in the preferences, so if there is one that works consistently better than the other, you can make it switch for you.

dmmackay · 2013-05-18 21:13:30

So I have been playing around trying to figure this out. I found journalctl which is great for trying to troubleshoot this. It appears that wpa_supplicant is tyring to connect in the background, in fact it is connecting and immediately disconnecting which would explain my random loss of connection. I have disabled it with systemctl and never setup it up to run automatically. I used it during install, and since then have only used it by wpa_supplicant -i wlp1s0 -c /etc/wpa_supplicant/home.conf. I have also disabled dhcpcd.service as mentioned earlier, NetworkManager doesn't use it so figured I would make sure it wasn't that.

Is there a way to figure out why it is running? Could something else be triggering it? What confuses me is how does it know what config file to use to connect, or does it just try any in that folder?

Thanks for you help on this.

WonderWoofy · 2013-05-19 01:49:37

dmmackay wrote:

Is there a way to figure out why it is running? Could something else be triggering it? What confuses me is how does it know what config file to use to connect, or does it just try any in that folder?

I am not sure what you are asking here... is this all about wpa_supplicant? If so, it will run (like any other service) if it is enabled, or started manually. Use systemctl to disable it. If it is enabled, or if you want to see if it is enabled, the systemctl command is simply "systemctl is-enabled <service>". To see if it is active, swap "is-enabled" for "is-active" in that last command.

You can see exactly what a service does by looking at its unit file. So in this case it would be /usr/lib/systemd/system/wpa_supplicant*. There are four of them for various purposes. Though if you want to use a network management service of some kind, you would want to disable all of these. You would also not want to use dhcpcd services of any kind either because it is handled by the network manager. If more than one of these services is running (ie. a wpa_supplicant serivce as well as NetworkManager.service) it is actually of no surprise that your connection is dropping. You have multiple services fighting for the same control of the interface.

If you want a list of all the running services for the given moment you can use "systemctl --type=service [--no-pager]". Where the no pager part is optional. I just don't have enough actual services running to make a pager worth using in this case. You should then be able to see if you have any extraneous crap running.

So once you've got that all figured out. You have everything disabled and stopped. Start NetworkManager.service and only NetworkManager.service. If that works then you can enable only NetworkManager.service. Don't get thrown off by the fact that enabling NetworkManager.service will actually enable three services. The main service pulls in two additional dependencies.

Arch Linux

#1 2013-05-16 18:14:24

wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#2 2013-05-16 18:20:36

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#3 2013-05-16 18:29:50

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#4 2013-05-16 18:59:06

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#5 2013-05-16 19:08:41

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#6 2013-05-16 19:19:53

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#7 2013-05-16 19:32:45

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#8 2013-05-16 19:48:54

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#9 2013-05-16 20:12:02

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#10 2013-05-16 22:18:33

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#11 2013-05-16 22:42:06

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#12 2013-05-18 21:13:30

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

#13 2013-05-19 01:49:37

Re: wpa_supplicant stable / NetworkManager unstable

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