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#26 2014-01-05 22:14:02

thiagowfx
Member
Registered: 2013-07-09
Posts: 532

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

I get your point. But images create a feeling (which can be or not be a illusion) of security. If a newbie gets to the same step as the image shows, he will know he is going to the right direction. This holds true even if the installation is text based. In this case, screenshots of the outputs of some commands would make sense. For example, I remember when I first tried to install Arch, I couldn't even imagine what the output of pacstrap would (should) be. If I had seen an image, I would be more comfortable because I would know that my command worked (at least, that I got an output like the example image). This is just my opinion. Sincerely, I do not hope to convince any of you with this argument. But that's why screencasts are a good option for a first install. YouTube has a lot of videos showing how to properly install Arch. Glad I could use it one day.

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#27 2014-01-05 22:18:05

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 14,749
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Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

I think a fair argument can be made for providing the output that could be expected.  But this output is still text.  How does an image of text provide more information than the text itself?


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#28 2014-01-05 22:56:11

thiagowfx
Member
Registered: 2013-07-09
Posts: 532

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

OK, I can't disagree with this. Although, there are a few commands worth adding a picture, mainly the ones which uses ncurses (I am assuming it is not easy to display a nicely formatted ncurses interface with text, please let me know if I'm wrong), like cfdisk and wicd.

But let's take the pacstrap example (it could be any other command with relevant output). If I head to the Beginner's page right now, its output is not there. Now I think I began this discussion with a wrong example. The "problem" isn't the absence of pictures, but the lack of output. I know it is not easy to maintain an output updated, and also it does not represent all the use cases, situations or contexts of an installation. But it clarifies a mind of a beginner (like I said in my last post). A simple sample of it would suffice.

I am not sure if there are *that* many commands worth displaying their outputs, and this is not a big deal, but I still think it is important to display the outputs (with or without images; in this case without, like you observed, since there is only text).

I hope I didn't sound much repetitive.

Edit: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9116?page=0,1
I was talking about something like this link in my post before this one. Look at the images...

Last edited by thiagowfx (2014-01-05 22:59:52)

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#29 2014-01-05 23:13:29

2ManyDogs
Member
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 1,749

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 0#p1353430
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 7#p1352987

jasonwryan wrote:

...the Beginners' Guide typically goes through a cycle; it gets cleaned up and slimmed down and then, as it is editable by anyone, over time it accumulates more and more "helpful" information until it resembles Elvis in his final years, lurching around Graceland with a fried peanut butter sandwich, obese, sweating and incoherent...

This topic started with someone claiming that the BG was "quite daunting" because of its size, and has proceeded to someone suggesting adding even more content. Personally, I think the BG is fat enough already. But that's just my opinion.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2014-01-05 23:16:30)

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#30 2014-01-05 23:14:42

fukawi2
Forum Moderator
From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 5,326
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Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

This thread has a strong semblance to a bikeshed, and that's against our Forum Etiquette: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo … IKESHED.29

Forum Etiquette wrote:

there is a problem with the Arch system and methodology, we need to discuss it

This is the warning, if it doesn't get back into something productive it will be closed.

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#31 2014-01-06 01:08:02

nd7rmn8
Member
Registered: 2013-12-08
Posts: 9

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

Concerning the guide you created, I skimmed it and I would like to offer some constructive criticism.  I would suggest placing at the top of the document an explanation of what the final product look like if someone followed your guide.  For example, I use I3 window manager and full disk encryption.  As someone browsing the internet for an install guide, I would prefer to know that your document wouldnt help me much in those regards at the beginning.

Now as a newcomer to arch, I will admit, I did visit a few various blogs and read some unofficial guides to installing arch.  They were quite helpful to me.  I tended to get confused (probably due to skim reading) on a few topics, such as configuring /root/ partition encryption to work, gdisk vs fdisk, and xinit vs startx.  I got all of them to work, and the wiki articles were helpful in explaining how things worked, but I would say there is room for improvement, especially with /root/ partition encryption.  It seemed to me that the answers were spread out across 10 different pages.  Could have been me being impatient and skim reading though (nasty habit).  But after some more research on these topics, and once I feel qualified, I will likely join in and start editing the wiki, hopefully bringing some additional clarity.  I personally just want to be sure before I write things there.

Short version.  I don't think there is anything wrong with producing your own guide on how to install arch and putting it on a blog or your own website.  But explain in detail in the beginning what following the guide will get you.  However; no guide can replace the wiki.  It would be hundreds of pages long and near impossible to read.  Hyperlinks to other pages is the greatest part of the internet.

edit: none of this is to say I don't like the wiki.  I came to arch because every time i searched for the answer to a linux question, it brought me to the wiki.  At that point, it made sense to just switch over.

Last edited by nd7rmn8 (2014-01-06 01:18:12)


i just cant stop thinking about how much smarter id be if i would have started reading years ago instead of skimming to find the answer...

tl;dr, meh

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#32 2014-02-10 19:42:50

mrknify
Member
Registered: 2013-01-18
Posts: 18

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

Sounds pretty handy. I know I have run into complications with my system and I will be re-installing it several times to test out different window managers. The biggest issue I have is with wired/wireless, something I will be playing with more.

With that said, I will check it out on for next install.

On a side note there is a "guide" by lifehacker that helped me with my install, it did not fill all The gaps may times I had required to go back to the wiki or search Google for another answer due to the complexity of how my netbook is set up.

All that said....
[edit]
I have reviewed your guide. it is very long winded there are no links to usefull information.
As a guide it is very difficult to follow, I resorted to skimming through it as it is very difficult to keep my attention.

My biggest suggestion is cut back the flavour text, add choices for the user to make. Focus less on using alternative ways to install, and more on getting the installation done.

I for one after using ubuntu have had enough of gnome its [my opinion] thick and following with the reason I went with linux, it just does not have that free, simple touch.

Last edited by mrknify (2014-02-11 02:43:12)


LG x110-L.a7b2a9 16g sd card, Arch Linux.(he has xp, oz unity, oz ultimate.)
Asus U36JC plan for duel boot w7 with Arch

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#33 2014-03-01 19:47:37

dunkles
Member
From: Chile
Registered: 2010-04-26
Posts: 64

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

install Antegros and ready, it's archlinux with a S XXI Installer  wink

Manjaro is a little different, is not as bleeding edge

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#34 2014-03-01 20:09:16

jasonwryan
Anarchist
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 20,069
Website

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

dunkles wrote:

install Antegros and ready, it's archlinux with a S XXI Installer  wink

Manjaro is a little different, is not as bleeding edge


Wrong. Neither Antegros nor Manjaro is Arch.


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#35 2014-05-03 07:07:43

namae
Member
Registered: 2014-05-02
Posts: 15

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

cfdisk only does GPT (but your should know this already)
and if your doing GPT then what about the EF00/02 partition at the beginning of the drive and are you running a UEFI or BIOS system unless you are going to force people to use syslinux
But I found Syslinux to be a pain an ended up using grub

Last edited by namae (2014-05-03 07:09:06)

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#36 2014-05-03 07:29:27

Ziusudra
Member
Registered: 2014-04-19
Posts: 93

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

namae wrote:

cfdisk only does GPT (but your should know this already)
and if your doing GPT then what about the EF00/02 partition at the beginning of the drive and are you running a UEFI or BIOS system unless you are going to force people to use syslinux
But I found Syslinux to be a pain an ended up using grub

cgdisk is GPT, cfdisk is MBR

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#37 2014-05-03 08:49:51

namae
Member
Registered: 2014-05-02
Posts: 15

Re: Yet Another Arch Installation (WIP)

I just realized that I typed that wrong and came back to fix it now
guess I was too late

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