KDE Applications 14.12 repo

stavallo · 2015-01-07 11:54:33

It looks like that Andrea Scarpino has the time to only maintain KDE Frameworks and Plasma 5 (he packaged and built the latest versions shortly after their releases). If no other Arch developer has the time/interest to maintain KDE Applications (to be verified) *and* there is a TU willing to maintain KDE Applications (I suppose at least Antonio Rojas - whom we are all grateful to for his great work - is), why don't we propose to move KDE Applications to [community], so that they can be actively maintained? (I am not sure if that violates any Arch policy)

Just my 2 cents

flying sheep · 2015-01-07 14:34:23

Sounds good if it’s possible!

And if it isn’t, it has to be made possible: All KDE applications hanging in limbo indefinitely is no acceptable status quo.

pb · 2015-01-07 14:51:09

There're: http://www.archlike.darmowefora.pl/inde … 173.0.html PKBUILD's (and other neccessary files) for all (I hope) stable KDE Apps 14.12 (including kde-l10n-*). sir_lucjan, from those forum, has built some of them as listed there: http://www.archlike.darmowefora.pl/inde … tml#msg816 Everyone may ask him about them.
We are planning to build repository on dropbox (I think) with all or mostly all packages from KDE Apps (14.12.x) and some more for Plasma 5. Of course it won't be official repository.

flying sheep · 2015-01-07 19:32:13

dropbox? don’t they simply stop delivering once certain traffic is reached?

but otherwise great! i only hope those PKGBUILDs will end up in some official repo in some form, soon

pb · 2015-01-07 20:59:05

Maybe not dropbox... and there will be not only KDE Apps packages, but more, esspecially for Plasma5.

2handband · 2015-01-08 02:45:48

Clarification needed here: is official support for the KDE family of applications flagging here at Arch? If so, why? I'm not being critical; I'm even willing to learn about package creation and maintenance if it will help. I just need to know because KDE apps are critical for my own use case.

mrunion · 2015-01-08 13:24:58

1) I don't know if KDE app support is lessening here at Arch.
2) I don't know but I do suspect that KDE is not in the WM/DE majority as far as usage in Arch.

I'm curious, @2handband, why are "KDE apps ...critical" for your use case? I truly am just curious, because I have seldom seen any use case that requires a specific DE for specific software to funtion. (Requiring libraries, yes, but an entire DE?)

Last edited by mrunion (2015-01-08 13:25:19)

V1del · 2015-01-08 14:03:14

I don't see the rush, only a handful of apps were ported to KF5/QT5 (with little to no additional features apart from the port) and installing this update into people who are residing on KDE4 for stability reasons would get a reduced feature set, since they'd have to rely on third party apps/AUR for certain customizations as the current KDE4 kcms only take Qt4 into account. In addition to that many of the KDE devs even recommend to wait for at least Plasma Next 5.2 as they assume to have most of the kinks ironed out by then.

Last edited by V1del (2015-01-08 14:10:05)

saty · 2015-01-08 14:40:12

I'm KDE user myself. I just like it and I'm used to it. When someone gets bored from it you can always have some tiling window manager along side it for something different and fun.

I think the situation with the packages right now is the way it is just because of the transition from kde4 stuff. It's just a big mess. We have up to date frameworks5 and plasma5 which is pretty much the best one can do at the moment I think. 14.12 release doesn't really solve the big problems, and unfortunately most likely 15.04 won't be able to do this either. KDE just have a lot of stuff in it. It's probably just too early to force the transition in some way to "kde5" for everyone using KDE at the moment, and just remove the old packages.

I'm planing to switch with plasma 5.2 release. I know that quite a few people are running it even now. I don't really know the inner workings of KDE and I have some questions and hope someone running plasmanext/kf5 can answer. I'm probably just gonna remove all the KDE stuff I can find and just install clean plasma-next and kf5. I'm wondering just how much of pure KDE4 libs and other dependencies are gonna be pulled if I want to use some core apps. I pretty much only care about dolphin, konsole, okular, gwenview and stuff like kmix let's say. I'm kinda guessing that the official packages in the repos will still work but will pull tons of stuff I don't really want. I tried to figure this on my own but I'm just not motivated to do it right now. I guess if it's a real big mess I'll just wait for the kf5 ports of everything I need(here is hope for 15.04) and just use some substitutes in the meantime.

slytux · 2015-01-08 15:18:39

I also use KDE4 on two production machines at home and at work. I've tried some other DE's but KDE is the only one that I was able to use with a good feature set. I don't want any gnome-y things on my desktop. I did install kf5 and plasma-desktop on a laptop over winter break to see what the future holds and I am not impressed. I could not even move around the Konsole app. Please maintain KDE4 until kde5 is stable.

saty · 2015-01-08 15:32:55

I'm pretty sure(without even running it) that "kde5" even now is stable enough. At least more stable than I'll probably need it to be. Actually it really depends by what do you mean by "kde5". It's just the apps that I wish are ported already. That's the show stopper for me and the thing that should prevent the full transition right now. I wasn't around in the community during early KDE4 days, but from what I've heard having the multiple separate components now is actually better.

gaelic · 2015-01-08 17:27:29

slytux wrote:

I also use KDE4 on two production machines at home and at work. I've tried some other DE's but KDE is the only one that I was able to use with a good feature set. I don't want any gnome-y things on my desktop. I did install kf5 and plasma-desktop on a laptop over winter break to see what the future holds and I am not impressed. I could not even move around the Konsole app. Please maintain KDE4 until kde5 is stable.

KDE5 (kf5+plasma5+kde-apps) are stable. Whatever caused your problems it was maybe not the fault of kde.

pb · 2015-01-08 19:33:43

OK. There you are:

Packages build against of KF5 or Plasma5 (including KDE Apps 14.12 build against of KF5:

[kde-next]
Server = https://sourceforge.net/projects/arch-like/files/repo/kde-next/

There are (mostly) KDE Apps 14.12 for KDE4.x

[kde4last]
Server = https://sourceforge.net/projects/arch-like/files/repo/kde4last/

There are packages not depends on KDE4/Plasma5

[archlike]
Server = https://sourceforge.net/projects/arch-like/files/repo/archlike/

Please tell us about them on: http://www.archlike.darmowefora.pl/inde … 189.0.html
We're English speaker (mostly ).

flying sheep · 2015-01-09 08:09:28

pb wrote:

OK. There you are:

Great! I’ll try this!

mrunion wrote:

I don't know but I do suspect that KDE is not in the WM/DE majority as far as usage in Arch.

you are wrong

(you can calculate that the 0.15% difference between GNOME with the given sample and population size is not sufficient to be significant: the p-value for “GNOME is really more popular” is something like 8% and therefore above the traditional 5% and 1% levels)

Last edited by flying sheep (2015-01-09 08:09:57)

duder2 · 2015-01-09 16:02:53

I tried installing a test pkg called Konsole from kde-next repo in post #88. Installs ok but will not launch . Tries and dies.

I'm looking for some apps to install to my fresh plasma 5 setup. It runs great/looks great (kf5-5.6.0) but no pure kf5 apps yet. Like others I'm not interested in using anything from KDE4. AUR builds just get caught in a loop of many dependencies so I was hoping for a working repo from Arojas for the above scenario.

Please post here if there is one or this SF repo starts working.

Last edited by duder2 (2015-01-09 16:04:06)

pb · 2015-01-09 20:34:34

duder2 wrote:

I tried installing a test pkg called Konsole from kde-next repo in post #88. Installs ok but will not launch . Tries and dies.

Hmmm.... strange. I use it:

Konsole
Wersja 3.0.0 # Version
Użyto Szkieletów KDE 5.6.0 # KDE Frameworks

Could you try to install and use:

sudo pacman -U http://arojas.hol.es/repos/kde-beta/konsole-14.11.97-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz

This version works good?
Have you any other terminal program allready installed? If it's true, try to launch Konsole from this terminal and put the output (you may contact with me on: pavbaranov at gmail dot com).

mrunion · 2015-01-10 01:22:57

flying sheep wrote:

mrunion wrote:
I don't know but I do suspect that KDE is not in the WM/DE majority as far as usage in Arch.
you are wrong
(you can calculate that the 0.15% difference between GNOME with the given sample and population size is not sufficient to be significant: the p-value for “GNOME is really more popular” is something like 8% and therefore above the traditional 5% and 1% levels)

Go figure?!? (But I do doubt the accuracy and sample size of those results.*) I do wonder where they get those stats from though. I mean, how to they know who's running what? I run Openbox but have KDE5/Next installed to see what it looked like, but I don't run it except once every moth or two for a few minutes. Do I count as both or neither?

* For example, Gnome and KDE are the top DEs, but Thunar is on top -- beating both Nautilus and Dolphin? Maybe, but that doesn't sound right.

drawm · 2015-01-10 13:27:06

mrunion wrote:

I do wonder where they get those stats from though. I mean, how to they know who's running what?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/pkgstats

These statistics only count the raw package installation numbers, not actual usage.
If you have installed KDE and Gnome (and pkgstats, of course...) but only use KDE, you count for both KDE and Gnome, for example.

To avoid such confusions, whoever uploads the statistics should consider writing how exactly they are created above the diagrams.

Last edited by drawm (2015-01-10 13:37:00)

midixinga · 2015-01-10 14:35:38

I think, there is no doubt, that KDE is one of the major DE like xfce or Gnome also in case of Arch users.
Thus I'm a little bit afraid and astonished, that KDE applications 14.12 are not even in Testing ?! What is the big difference to KDE SC 4.14 ? Why Arch developers stopped (did they stop ?) building packages for KDE applications ? Are there personal reasons or technical difficulties ?

If I understand correctly KDE applications can be used with KDE Platform 4 and KDE Frameworks 5 ?!

Last edited by midixinga (2015-01-10 15:26:51)

Wu · 2015-01-10 15:09:24

Guys. just my 2 cents, there are no killer features in 14.12 apps compared to KDE 4.14 but on the other hand:

- Some apps have regression because of the KF5 port (i.e. Konversation),
- Some are not even ported (e.g. Dolphin),
- The changelog is, well, embarassing (https://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Appl … ature_Plan)

So why the rush? In a 6 months/1 year time we'll have a stable Plasma shell and most apps will be ported.

Just enjoy a rock solid KDE for the time being

duder2 · 2015-01-10 15:20:13

Just for fun as a solution I tried this:
1) go to https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/a … repository
2) as reg user git clone git://anongit.kde.org/konsole
3) use http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~krejzi … -pkgs.html instructions sub /usr for $KDE_PREFIX
4) open Applications>System>konsole BAM

About Konsole: Konsole Version 3.90.901 Using KDE Frameworks 5.6.0

Now I have the proper latest and greatest kf5 apps built against QT5 in arch plasma-next stable.

I suppose I'll have to exclude this prog from pacman updates in the future. If you are running Konsole from AUR or 4.12 check your about for version and see the difference in age in version compared to this. You probably have 2.14 or older.

Edit: For even more usability fun I installed kde-baseapps (Dolphin, etc) and kate from line 1 above. Same procedure.

Last edited by duder2 (2015-01-10 18:49:33)

midixinga · 2015-01-10 15:23:32

Wu wrote:

Guys. just my 2 cents, there are no killer features in 14.12 apps compared to KDE 4.14 but on the other hand:
- Some apps have regression because of the KF5 port (i.e. Konversation),
- Some are not even ported (e.g. Dolphin),
- The changelog is, well, embarassing (https://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Appl … ature_Plan)
So why the rush? In a 6 months/1 year time we'll have a stable Plasma shell and most apps will be ported.
Just enjoy a rock solid KDE for the time being

Yes I heard, that there aren't any big new features or bug-fixes. But it would be nice to know, if Arch will support KDE in the future.

If there would be an official statement like "KDE Apps 14.12 have to much regressions/bugs, we will wait to 15.04", that would sound fine for me.

There so much distros in the world, but no real alternative to Arch

hifi25nl · 2015-01-10 17:04:04

pb wrote:

OK. There you are:
Packages build against of KF5 or Plasma5 (including KDE Apps 14.12 build against of KF5:
[kde-next]
Server = https://sourceforge.net/projects/arch-like/files/repo/kde-next/
There are (mostly) KDE Apps 14.12 for KDE4.x
[kde4last]
Server = https://sourceforge.net/projects/arch-like/files/repo/kde4last/
There are packages not depends on KDE4/Plasma5
[archlike]
Server = https://sourceforge.net/projects/arch-like/files/repo/archlike/
Please tell us about them on: http://www.archlike.darmowefora.pl/inde … 189.0.html
We're English speaker (mostly ).

Most of the packages in these respositories crash or will not start. I have kf5 kf5-aids plasma-next installed and kde-beta respository enabled.
Specifically dolphin and konsole...

Last edited by hifi25nl (2015-01-10 17:04:31)

arojas · 2015-01-10 20:45:39

Wu wrote:

- The changelog is, well, embarassing (https://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Appl … ature_Plan)

Don't trust that page, barely any developer updates it. The real changelog is in https://www.kde.org/announcements/fulll … 4.12.0.php

sir_lucjan · 2015-01-11 10:26:23

@hifi25nl

I use it:

[lucjan@archlinux ~]$ dolphin -v
Qt: 4.8.6
KDE: 4.14.3
Dolphin: 14.11.97

[lucjan@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Qs dolphin
local/kdebase-dolphin 14.12.0-1 (kde kdebase)
    File Manager

[lucjan@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Ss dolphin
kde4last/kdebase-dolphin 14.12.0-1 (kde kdebase) [installed]
    File Manager
kde4last/kdesdk-dolphin-plugins 14.12.0-1 (kde kdesdk)
    Extra Dolphin plugins
extra/kdebase-dolphin 4.14.3-1 (kde kdebase) [installed: 14.12.0-1]
    File Manager
extra/kdesdk-dolphin-plugins 4.14.3-1 (kde kdesdk)
    Extra Dolphin plugins

It works (for me)

Arch Linux

#76 2015-01-07 11:54:33

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#77 2015-01-07 14:34:23

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#78 2015-01-07 14:51:09

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#79 2015-01-07 19:32:13

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#80 2015-01-07 20:59:05

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#81 2015-01-08 02:45:48

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#82 2015-01-08 13:24:58

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#83 2015-01-08 14:03:14

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#84 2015-01-08 14:40:12

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#85 2015-01-08 15:18:39

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#86 2015-01-08 15:32:55

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#87 2015-01-08 17:27:29

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#88 2015-01-08 19:33:43

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#89 2015-01-09 08:09:28

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#90 2015-01-09 16:02:53

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#91 2015-01-09 20:34:34

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#92 2015-01-10 01:22:57

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#93 2015-01-10 13:27:06

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#94 2015-01-10 14:35:38

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#95 2015-01-10 15:09:24

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#96 2015-01-10 15:20:13

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#97 2015-01-10 15:23:32

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#98 2015-01-10 17:04:04

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#99 2015-01-10 20:45:39

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

#100 2015-01-11 10:26:23

Re: KDE Applications 14.12 repo

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