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phrakture · 2005-03-06 19:38:49

cactus wrote:

Mr Green wrote:
How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
0. If the light goes out, they simply bask in the glow of their monitors.

nice

0 : If the light goes out, the socket's error detection routines are smart enough to notify the nearest electrician and have them come replace it

skoal · 2005-03-07 04:19:33

z4ziggy wrote:

x86 assembly (my fav)

sweet...

Although I prefer MIPS myself.

tranquility wrote:

VHDL

sweeter...

Although I'm strictly a Verilog man myself.

soloport wrote:

Assembly: Z80, MC68020-040, MC68340/360 (most years), ColdFire

sweetest...

You, sir, win the prize.

Me a guru? I'm just a jack of all trades, and a master of none...

z4ziggy · 2005-03-07 04:24:56

most of the hardcore coders i know, are "masters of none", yet rule 'em all...

phrakture · 2005-03-07 16:13:27

skoal wrote:

z4ziggy wrote:
x86 assembly (my fav)
sweet...
Although I prefer MIPS myself.

pfft, MIPS - proprietary assembly is much cooler - Motorola, TI, Xylinx... MIPS is too dry for me

skoal wrote:

tranquility wrote:
VHDL
sweeter...
Although I'm strictly a Verilog man myself.

Man, I hate verilog - after VHDL being my bread and butter for the longest time, Verilog hurts my head... I can't work properly in it and I do things at half the speed if I were to do it in VHDL

And VHDL has the coolest acronym ever:
VLSIC Hardware Description Language
Very Large Scale Integrated Circuit Hardware Description Language

bam!

dadexter · 2005-03-08 15:48:46

It would be the best if it was somewhat recursive, like GNU

phrakture · 2005-03-08 16:58:51

phrakture wrote:

Man, I hate verilog - after VHDL being my bread and butter for the longest time, Verilog hurts my head... I can't work properly in it and I do things at half the speed if I were to do it in VHDL

time to elaborate!!!

verilog is too much like a programming language.. it's too much like C... and if you learn that you are "programming" it doesn't make sense.
VHDL/Verilog/etc are used to describe a hardware unit. Under VHDL, you describe the entity itself, inputs and outputs, then describe the architecture, and how it is structured. Under verilog, you kinda make functions... it doesn't make sense to me, from a hardware design perspective...

skoal · 2005-03-08 19:20:58

phrakture wrote:

verilog is too much like a programming language.. it's too much like C... and if you learn that you are "programming" it doesn't make sense.

VHDL is the DoD project later given IEEE standards (and never really intended for actual design), and Verilog HDL is the one developed commercially. Both are used extensively in abstract models and synthesization, and there are similarities between the two of course.

One of the biggest markets today is simulation and the licensing of it. It is very important in those cases for other designers to understand your logic, so they can implement it at as an HDL model. ASIC vendors and their hundreds of supported Verilog libraries -> quicker design to market.

As far as a purely language analysis (from my experience):
1. Debugging is a snap in Verilog.
2. Verilog timing for abstraction models was much more in sync with hardware behaviour than VHDL. In fact, I don't believe VHDL had such capability until it was released by Verilog, and the IEEE adopted it later as a standard.
3. There were cases when I could only use an EDA tool in Verilog.
4. There are many more comparisons, but that's old news in the Verilog/VHDL wars...

In the end, it's a matter of preference, but more than likely what you have to use. Whether it's Verilog or VHDL, you still need a firm grasp of parallel execution. Outside of that, everything else is "superficial" differences like C or C++ implementations, and the debates which ensue over that...

phrakture · 2005-03-08 19:43:05

skoal wrote:

In the end, it's a matter of preference, but more than likely what you have to use. Whether it's Verilog or VHDL, you still need a firm grasp of parallel execution.

Agreed. I used to like verilog much better but after being *required* to use VHDL for almost a year, I decided I liked it much better, though I could do without the Pascal-based syntax he he he.

And technically you don't always need to know parallel execution, for instance - state machines... in VHDL it takes place (usually) in a PROCESS block, which is interpreted as an FF-base state machine and is executed sequentially..
But I'm just being picky...

Komodo · 2006-06-11 12:10:00

phrakture wrote:

skoal wrote:
z4ziggy wrote:
x86 assembly (my fav)
sweet...
Although I prefer MIPS myself.
pfft, MIPS - proprietary assembly is much cooler - Motorola, TI, Xylinx... MIPS is too dry for me

nah, i'm with skoal on this one; mips is my preference. also, check out the performance of MIPS r10000 vs pentium pro

anyhoo, my languages (proficiency order):

java, ocaml, haskell, CSP, ruby, python, oberon [i'm excluding mips; it's hardly challenging ]

My favourite is haskell, with ruby following and then java. My least favourite is oberon (close second is ocaml). I prefer ruby over python. And that's about it

soloport · 2006-06-12 16:16:04

When interviewing a prospective candidate, draw a tall rectangle on the whiteboard, tell them that it's a Memory Map and ask them, "Which end, top or bottom is 0x00000000? Which end is 0xFFFFFFFF?"

How they answer will tell you a great deal.

I'll post the correct answer if anyone is curious. But, first, any guesses?

postlogic · 2006-06-12 17:59:59

Programmers don't die, they just GoSub and Return.

Anyway, from left to right: PHP, Python, JavaScript, C++.

Komodo · 2006-06-12 18:50:41

soloport wrote:

When interviewing a prospective candidate, draw a tall rectangle on the whiteboard, tell them that it's a Memory Map and ask them, "Which end, top or bottom is ? Which end is 0xFFFFFFFF?"
How they answer will tell you a great deal.
I'll post the correct answer if anyone is curious. But, first, any guesses?

hmm... no idea at all. but since my first instinct is the obvious answer that 0x00000000 is at the bottom, i'm gonna guess instead that it's at the top (since your phraseology is loaded to bias an unusual answer ).

i'd like to know the answer though

barebones · 2006-06-12 19:37:59

I'm no programming guru, not by a long shot (I have experience in python and java, and thats about it) but I'd say that 0x000000 is neither the top nor the bottom, but the left side. Because english reads left to right, and thats what I'm used to, it seems like left to right would be more efficent of a way to work instead of any of the other directions.

Cerebral · 2006-06-12 20:12:34

0x0 is (traditionally) at the top, at least in almost every diagram I've seen.

On topic (geez, didn't know this thread existed)
C/C++, Java, BASIC (woohoo), Bash - and I pick up other languages like nobody's business. I have no PHP experience whatsoever but I've helped people debug PHP apps, for example.

soloport · 2006-06-12 21:42:47

The answer:

If you think like a typical Hardware or Firmware engineer, you'll say 0x00000000 is at the bottom. If you think like most Software engineers, you may say the 0x0000000 is at the top. "Because code flows down*, right?" :shock: (Well, the Program Counter *increments to the next instruction. So, software only really flows "down" in an editor. )

This is why embedded hardware is often layed out "Big-endian" -- but most PC software is written for "Little-endian" (byte-swapped) hardware.

Intel processors seemed to be designed by software engineers (a very conflicted lot). On the other hand, Motorola (Freescale) processors are designed by real harware / embedded engineers. It's true.

The PowerPC, however, is rather AC/DC. It swings both ways to suit your requirements. ;-)

Komodo · 2006-06-13 00:27:26

hehe, interesting soloport. i know all about program counter, base pointer etc. in your average stack frame, but it didn't help me answer the question :evil:

phrakture · 2006-06-13 06:57:11

soloport wrote:

The answer:
If you think like a typical Hardware or Firmware engineer, you'll say 0x00000000 is at the bottom. If you think like most Software engineers, you may say the 0x0000000 is at the top. "Because code flows down*, right?" :shock: (Well, the Program Counter *increments to the next instruction. So, software only really flows "down" in an editor. )

What if I would have answered like so: "I can't answer that. It's a fairly arbitrary decision to pick which end of a diagram a lable goes on, and means little. What other stipulations/information can you give me about this? If there is none, I would just say 0xFFFFFFFF is the top, simply because I've seen more diagrams organzied that way"

soloport · 2006-06-13 15:24:44

phrakture wrote:

What if I would have answered like so: "I can't answer that. It's a fairly arbitrary decision to pick which end of a diagram a lable goes on, and means little. What other stipulations/information can you give me about this? If there is none, I would just say 0xFFFFFFFF is the top, simply because I've seen more diagrams organzied that way"

Oh! Did I mention how a engineering manager might answer?

(kidding...)

Moo-Crumpus · 2006-06-13 16:43:50

arooaroo wrote:

Pink Chick wrote:
I am very good in "mouse". I know every button, wheel and knob of it.
Ah, then you'll probably like Power Button too

I progressed and now know "keyboard" as well. I know any key now, men. Cool. Example: *
That's exactly what I expected would happen. Yahoo!

Komodo · 2006-06-13 17:51:36

Moo-Crumpus wrote:

I progressed and now know "keyboard" as well. I know any key now, men. Cool. Example: *
That's exactly what I expected would happen. Yahoo!

:shock:

deficite · 2006-06-14 02:29:37

C/C++, Python, Haskell, x86 ASM, C#, PHP, and some other web languages (a smidgen of Perl before I found out how much it disgusts me)

Romashka · 2006-06-14 12:58:25

x86 assembler, C, C++, PHP, VB, Pascal, Delphi, ECMAScript (JavaScript, ActionScript)
+ SQL, XHTML, CSS, XML etc.
I tried also Perl, Python, Ruby, Pike, Java, Ada, many embedded scriptable languages (Lua, Pawn (former Small)).
Now I do all my work in C and PHP-SQL-XHTML-CSS-AJAX-XML-Flash-Flex, depending on tasks.
I also have an experience with SDL, Allegro and many of their supplementary libraries.
For my C demelopment needs I tried MSVC++6 and lcc-win32, now I use MinGW (with DevC++ or Code::Blocks) and Pelles C (good lcc-based C99-compliant C compiler).

Bison · 2006-06-26 20:52:29

Python, Common Lisp, PHP, C, C++, Java, Basic

GSF · 2006-06-27 09:53:02

skillsets, in order of ability:
personal - Java, C, PHP
professional - MVS Assembler, REXX, COBOL, JCL

twiistedkaos · 2006-06-29 06:16:13

1.) Assembly,
2.) C++,
3.) C,
4.) Python,
5.) Delphi
6.) Visual Basic / Basic

Web Based
1.) Html,
2.) PHP
3.) Python

Arch Linux

#51 2005-03-06 19:38:49

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#52 2005-03-07 04:19:33

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#53 2005-03-07 04:24:56

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