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#726 2020-08-03 15:28:03

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 24,454
Website

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

I'm not sure I follow your point.  That was a purely technical discussion.  I don't know enough about it to know whether his position on that technical point holds water or not, but by all means disagree*.  I find a lot of ESR's personal/political views disturbing, but as far as I know he's never tried to write them into a software license.  Once people started pushing political issues in software license, it is fair game to counter with opposing political views.  Software license should have remained technical matters as the bug report you just linked to did.

* I do think it seems silly to not handle bad input better, but I can see the reasoning behind not expecting a bit of software to behave poorly when you give it the wrong input: garbage in, garbage out.  There is no existing software that couldn't be deliberately abused into some sort of seg fault or failure.  The solution isn't more complex code, sometimes it really is to tell the users to stop being asshats.

EDIT: I just renamed a video file to "test.pdf" and tried opening it in mupdf.  That was not handled gracefully at all.  I don't think mupdf is liable for that nor does it need to be patched with a test early in it's execution that ammounts to `if (user == idiot) exit(1);`.

Last edited by Trilby (2020-08-03 15:30:54)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#727 2020-08-03 15:55:33

eschwartz
Trusted User/Bug Wrangler
Registered: 2014-08-08
Posts: 3,712

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

OTOH, gif2png is sometimes run as a webapp accepting arbitrary input from anyone on the internet. So you'd sort of hope it doesn't cause serious issues when doing so.

esr decided to establish this "policy" AFAICT after getting annoyed that people reported bugs, and responded, essentially, "I hate the thought of caring about such bugs so much I will add special code to the program to prevent *any* segfault from ever being reported to me, ever".

This is a bit less understandable than mupdf reporting 867 lines of

error: invalid key in dict
warning: name is too long
error: invalid key in dict
warning: name is too long
warning: ... repeated 8 times...

followed by

error: no objects found
mupdf: error: cannot open document

and exiting 1. Which AFAIK is not trapping segfaults, merely parsing the file and correctly deducing it cannot be parsed.

(Note: mupdf does fix bugs reported by google's oss-fuzz project.)


Managing AUR repos The Right Way -- aurpublish (now a standalone tool)

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#728 2020-08-03 16:14:37

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 24,454
Website

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

Ok, so you disagree with him on technical grounds about a technical issue.  And I think you have a good point.  I still don't follow how or if there's a connection to the preceeding points.  If you are trying to posit that he's become lazy as a coder or software maintainer, I'd not agree with the conclusion, but you've entered a valid bit of evidence for such a claim.  But again, I just don't see the relevance of that to the preceeding discussion.

Last edited by Trilby (2020-08-03 16:15:10)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#729 2020-08-04 07:17:10

ondoho
Member
Registered: 2013-04-30
Posts: 677
Website

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

Trilby wrote:

My claim was (and still is) that the article itself did not prove anything or even provide sound evidence.  It established the position of the author and as such functions as a shibboleth to declare which side of an issue the author is on.  But position statements that say "the evidence is available, do your own resurch" are not arguments and cannot prove anything.  The only evidence against ESR presented in that article is that he used colorful language.

IMO linking to the messages that form the body of the topic in question is sound enough; how could it get sounder if that's what the article is all about.
If the linked original messages disappeared you might correctly state that the article is worthless.

If you think the author is "siding with the PC folk" you are sorely mistaken.
Yes, an opinion is expressed, but not that opinion.
I have that on good authority.

PS: I can see why you aren't running your own blog, no article could ever meet your own standards.


However studied and stilted your rant, it can never hide the base and primitve emotion that inspired it.
There's no objectivity.

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#730 2020-08-04 08:33:22

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,597

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

ondoho wrote:

PS: I can see why you aren't running your own blog, no article could ever meet your own standards.

And there we go. The article pisses me off, too. This has nothing to do with Trilby's standards. I just tend to ignore opinion pieces and simply click on the sources and see for myself. It could have been a headline, a collection of links and some lorem ipsum, would have looked less hissy.

EDIT: Ah, I see, it's your blog. Explains your defensive behaviour.

Last edited by Awebb (2020-08-04 08:35:24)

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#731 2020-08-04 09:59:15

schard
Member
From: Hannover
Registered: 2016-05-06
Posts: 995
Website

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

I again risk being the noodge here, but what again have the last two pages contributed to the topic of why you all chose Arch Linux?

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#732 2020-08-04 11:19:12

Alad
Wiki Admin/IRC Op/TU
From: Bagelstan
Registered: 2014-05-04
Posts: 2,105
Website

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

Clearly they choose Arch Linux to argument on the internet. (I learned English that way... beats any language course neutral)


Mods are just community members who have the occasionally necessary option to move threads around and edit posts. -- Trilby
Honest Alad's Package Emporium—Now with added bugs! (Grand reopening: December 1st 2018)

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#733 2020-08-04 11:29:39

Buddlespit
Member
From: Chesapeake, Va.
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 487

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

schard wrote:

I again risk being the noodge here, but what again have the last two pages contributed to the topic of why you all chose Arch Linux?

I chose Arch Linux to watch the senior forum personnel blow off steam, wag their dicks at each other and learn a language.


MSI B550 Bazooka, Ryzen 7 3800X, RTX 2070 SUPER, Arctis 5 usb audio, 16GB 3800 cl15 (1900 inf fab) memory, 1 nvme, 3 ssd, 1 hhd (8TB tot.)

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#734 2020-08-04 11:33:28

VoDo
Member
From: Europe
Registered: 2020-06-04
Posts: 43

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

I chose it because I wanted to pass the forum sing in test what was harder then Arch/macOS dualboot Installation!


Archi3

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#735 2020-08-04 11:56:59

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,597

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

Buddlespit knows good entertainment!

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#736 2020-08-04 12:04:26

2ManyDogs
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 3,401

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

Can we stay on topic please? I'd rather not split out all the blog argument posts (and the snarky posts about the blog argument).

I chose Arch because I was trying everything. I kept it because of the wiki and the forum. Sometimes I'm not so sure about the forum.

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#737 2020-08-04 21:39:21

Alad
Wiki Admin/IRC Op/TU
From: Bagelstan
Registered: 2014-05-04
Posts: 2,105
Website

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

On topic... I chose Arch because a guy on a Linux forum told me to "just do it". I kept it because of the little islands of community members that cooperated without getting in each other's way.


Mods are just community members who have the occasionally necessary option to move threads around and edit posts. -- Trilby
Honest Alad's Package Emporium—Now with added bugs! (Grand reopening: December 1st 2018)

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#738 2020-09-29 08:58:55

stephenboston
Member
Registered: 2020-09-27
Posts: 28

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

I was tired of Ubuntu and alarmed by a foreboding that they will move the entire distro to snaps. Their fetish for the mobile experience is an eye-roll. So I tried manjaro and found it full of snappy stuff and other crud so...

I heard that installing Arch can be an instructive challenge. And that is so. I am finding that.

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#739 2020-09-29 16:22:19

Pellaeon
Member
Registered: 2020-06-15
Posts: 12
Website

Re: why you choose ArchLinux?

I wasn't a fan of all the preinstalled crap that comes with most other distros, and a friend recommended Arch so I jumped ship.

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