Which lightweight WM to choose?

pyrrhicvictory · 2008-09-14 08:02:40

Though I may be biased, I find that there is simply no replacement for Fluxbox, or for Fvwm-Crystal. I think that they are both light enough in their own right for day to day usage. In fact, I have sed these almost exclusively for several years without fail, something actually in the ballpark of 6 years. No matter which wm or de I try, I always seem to go back to these two (though I prefer Fluxbox)

Tomi · 2008-09-15 17:33:35

atordo wrote:

Could you share which replacements are those?

I'm glad you asked ;-) However, they aren't anything ordinary, and several parts are self-made. The short answer is: I don't use desktop and panels at all.

This post may be off-topic, and it's rather long. I'm not sure if I should split it into a new thread.

KDesktop: IMHO desktop icons are "overhyped", I never used them anyway. They're always obstructed by open windows. App shortcuts can be placed on the panel or in menu, and actual files can be moved to ~ and accessed with a regular file manager. Even while I had KDesktop, I mostly had desktop icons turned off (there's an option for it in the control center).

However, some important KDE services are built into KDesktop. First, the Alt+F2 "Run program" dialog. Can be replaced with gmrun. Next, KHotkeys. Xbindkeys does it well. Next, the screensaver daemon. The original xscreensaver was the obvious choice, but its password dialog was very ugly. It can be configured with Xresources to use a nicer font and disable unneeded fields, so it can actually look good, but in the end, I had to patch it a tiny bit (http://www.smnd.sk/tomi/xscreensaver/) to disable the logo.

Kicker: provides the menu, quicklaunch icons, window list and system tray. The menu can be accessed via konqueror applications:/, the quicklaunch is expendable (see below), the window list is something I probably miss the most, but Alt+Tab works, and all the system tray icons can be replaced or simply closed. (Klipper, Krandr, Kmix, Kxkb etc. aren't really needed, or can be used even when invisible. For example, Ctrl+Alt+K - I think - switches Kxkb layouts.)

If there's no panel and no desktop icons, how to launch apps? With xbindkeys. There's a lot of keys on your keyboard that aren't used. Most notably, the F* keys without modifiers (except for F1 and F3). If you have a "multimedia keyboard", even better. And if that's not enough keys, there also are many modifier combos, and gmrun can run anything.

Konsole: is *the best* terminal emulator under X. I tried gnome-terminal, urxvt, mrxvt, sakura, (I think it was?) RoXterm, and some others, but IMHO none can compare. All the VTE ones felt somehow... slow, perhaps? urxvt (and rxvt) doesn't even support jump scrolling and alternate screen switching (see xterm manpage). Because I wanted something more lightweight than konsole, I'm currently using the second best terminal emulator... xterm. It's really ugly by default, but that can be configured. (To begin, set good fg and bg colors, and enable Xft rendering). The only feature that I miss are tabs. However, that may be solvable at the WM layer (now, if I only had a better WM... and we're on-topic again).

Custom replacements: I replaced gmrun with a program I call aprun (the name is work-in-progress), which starts a bit faster, and more importantly, has automatic incremental history search.

Also, I made a Lua replacement for xbindkeys, lxbind, because I wanted scripting. (For example, now I can press Ctrl+Win+F and all the F-keys are ungrabbed, so if some app needs them, they can get through.) xbindkeys already has guile integration, but the code for it was ugly, and I wrote lxbind as a challenge to make it nicer. (It's still ugly, and possibly WIP.)

sm4tik · 2008-09-15 23:36:09

Tomi,
Last time I just +1'ed for fvwm, didn't have time for a longer post then, sorry about that. Reading through the requirements list once again, just actually convinced me about my liking towards fvwm, then reading further through the replys just made me think like "wow.. are they sure any other wm can't manage that wish list?"
After a couple of years using it as my main wm, there still are so many things in this wm I haven't even touched yet. Everytime I've had a problem of some sort concerning features I've needed, it's been there just waiting to get used. It has a heck of a lot of useful built in functions, it's small, it's fast, it's configurable to look and feel exactly as you want it to, it respects ewmh hints, it runs with no hickups on this old piece of crap laptop ..and the list goes on.
One big downside in all of it's flexibility is configuring. If you ever give fvwm a chance, the switch won't happen in a day or two, but once you get a little hold of it, you will be returning to it.. To me arch and fvwm have been the two ends of what I thought were endless roads. ..no more "bounced" for me

Last edited by sm4tik (2008-09-15 23:39:18)

Tomi · 2008-09-16 16:08:22

> "wow.. are they sure any other wm can't manage that wish list?"
KWin does. I'm happy with KWin. On its own, it even isn't that big. However, the full KDE session (kded, kbuildsycoca, klauncher...) always loads along with it. So that's why I'm searching for a replacement.

I've browsed through the FVWM FAQ and it looks good. I still have yet to test FVWM, IceWM (properly configured), PekWM and Fluxbox, so any judgements aren't final, but FVWM looks, um, nice. (It has plugins! A WM with plugins! Extensibility is wonderful.) I don't mind switching and configuring, even if it takes long, on the contrary, I actually like tinkering with CLI configs more than some GUIs (= Archlinux user).

An off-topic question: does anyone know how to monitor mouse pointer events under X while passing them to other clients? There's XGrabPointer, but IIRC, it prevents other clients from receiving the events. Because if it's possible, that's all it takes to emulate shading with hover, in any EWMH WM.
EDIT: Found it. $ xev -id `xwininfo -root | grep -Eom1 '0x\w+'`

EDIT 2: I'm testing Fluxbox ATM. Google suggests that there really isn't any Alt+Tab "dialog". That may be problematic.

Last edited by Tomi (2008-09-16 17:32:22)

sm4tik · 2008-09-17 01:30:58

Tomi wrote:

I actually like tinkering with CLI configs more than some GUIs (= Archlinux user).

..Some GUIs..? If you ask me, I'd say any GUI
..them archers.... ..mumblemumble..

atordo · 2008-09-20 20:16:59

Thanks for the detailed reply, Tomi. It's been so long since I messed with my desktop that I feel tempted to experiment... but OTOH it's my everyday's work environment so I'm reluctant.

fuscia · 2008-09-22 03:28:39

Misfit138 wrote:

The Avatar of Time wrote:
It does seem that Openbox is a bit more popular than Fluxbox though. I don't really know anything about Openbox or what other features it has compared to Fluxbox.
Openbox is similar to Fluxbox, but it comes 'as-is'; completely barebones. By default, it manages your X window, and nothing more. When you start a default Openbox session, you can move an X cursor around with your mouse, but not much else. Panels, menus, icons and other features are all customized (added) manually.
Openbox is also nice for a reason you pointed out- it is minimal and remains very stable (and fast). It is difficult to recognize an Openbox desktop, because it is so completely customizable. As you use it more, you'll become more comfortable with the concept and process of 'building your own' environment. You'll get used to the panel you prefer, the fonts you like, perhaps a volume controller application, etc.
Setting up Openbox for the first time may be a bit daunting, but give it time, and you may come to embrace the freedom it offers.
It also has a great wiki page.

nice post. i've used openbox more than anything. i'll go through stages where i'll try something else for a while, but i always end up back with ob.

[naive]can kwin be used by itself?!?[/naive]

Arch Linux

#26 2008-09-14 08:02:40

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#27 2008-09-15 17:33:35

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#28 2008-09-15 23:36:09

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#29 2008-09-16 16:08:22

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#30 2008-09-17 01:30:58

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#31 2008-09-20 20:16:59

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#32 2008-09-22 03:28:39

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

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