Arch Linux

HashBox

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Registered: 2009-01-22

Posts: 271

Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I've just come across this tiling window manager which seems to be very new, I've seen no mentions of it anywhere other than wikipedia, so I thought I'd download it and try it out. You can find it here, along with source and probably all the info you could possibly need.

"A simple tiling window manager for X, with features nicked from ratpoison and dwm"
http://aerosuidae.net/musca.html

It looks to be alot like dwm in the configuring aspect, (ie. edit config.h and compile), although it also has a start file which can be used to run some internal commands.
Anyway I've only been using it for literally the time it took me to write this post, but I thought I'd suggest that others give it a shot! I'm certainly enjoying it so far

eerok

Member

From: Canada

Registered: 2005-03-20

Posts: 171

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I've just finally gotten around to trying Awesome (which so far I like better than Xmonad).  It's hard to keep up with them all

I've said it before, though: the more the merrier.

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Procyon

Member

Registered: 2008-05-07

Posts: 1,819

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I tried it out for a while and it seems to work nicely. Relying on dmenu is bad though. I just had to Sysrq my way out of a locked X, because dmenu took control of the keyboard. They should definitely add a way to kill to dmenu after x seconds or make sure it works.

Edit: and by dmenu taking control, I mean it was broken (it displayed just one empty line) and it didn't respond to Esc or anything.

Last edited by Procyon (2009-03-09 14:27:18)

bgc1954

Member

From: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Registered: 2006-03-14

Posts: 1,160

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Thanks for the post.   It's nice to have something new to play around with.  I like it, BUT can't say it would tear me away from wmii quite yet.  Maybe a tad too much manual setting up screen space for my liking but it definately gives you total control over your screen space.  I set it up with dzen2 and my conky-cli that I use in wmii so I can keep an eye on my laptop temps and battery stuff.

I do like the fact that it doesn't have any borders other than a thin line around your windows.  I kind of like that look better than the border detail in wmii.  And it's fairly easy to pickup the keyboard commands.  I haven't had any issues yet with dmenu like Procyon but maybe it's too early to tell.  Personally, I do like it better than dwm though--not sure why yet.

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Inxsible

Forum Fellow

From: Chicago

Registered: 2008-06-09

Posts: 9,183

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I tried it out for a while and it seems to work nicely. Relying on dmenu is bad though. I just had to Sysrq my way out of a locked X, because dmenu took control of the keyboard. They should definitely add a way to kill to dmenu after x seconds or make sure it works.

Edit: and by dmenu taking control, I mean it was broken (it displayed just one empty line) and it didn't respond to Esc or anything.

I currently use dwm and wmii. I have seen this behavior about 3 times in wmii and the only recourse was to kill X/ Sysrq. I thought it was an issue with wmii. But since you point out that it is dmenu at fault,  I guess I was just lucky that it hasn't happened in dwm.

@bgc1954
I simply love the fact that wmii removes tags that do not contain any windows instead of statically defining tags. But dwm takes 479KB, whereas wmii takes about 2.2-2.8MB, both according to ps_mem.

I currently won't be trying out any other tiling WM simply because I am still learning the ropes with dwm and wmii -- and am confusing the shortcuts in those itself . Not to mention, I still mistakenly use my openbox shortcuts sometimes...and heaven knows what that does to dwm or wmii because I still am not quite clear on the sel and ctl commands in wmii.

Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-09 16:44:51)

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Dieter@be

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From: Belgium

Registered: 2006-11-05

Posts: 2,001

Website

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

You guys tried pressing esc a few times when dmenu "hangs" ?

Especially with wmii, it has this bug where if you are typing in dmenu and then a new window pops up, dmenu still has focus but you don't see it.  Esc'ing a few times helps

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Inxsible

Forum Fellow

From: Chicago

Registered: 2008-06-09

Posts: 9,183

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

You guys tried pressing esc a few times when dmenu "hangs" ?

Especially with wmii, it has this bug where if you are typing in dmenu and then a new window pops up, dmenu still has focus but you don't see it.  Esc'ing a few times helps

Will keep this in mind the next time it happens to me.

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Procyon

Member

Registered: 2008-05-07

Posts: 1,819

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

If you want to try it out, do it with Xephyr so you can still use the other WM (I had the problem both in Xephyr and a real Xorg)

EDIT

Actually, it seems I was using ALT+x wrong. I replaced it with my own app that wasn't doing at all the same as dmenu_path. I still don't understand why my keyboard locked up though.

Last edited by Procyon (2009-03-09 19:39:31)

pauldonnelly

Member

Registered: 2006-06-19

Posts: 776

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

You guys with dmenu lockups should take a look at X.org's "AllowDeactivateGrabs" option. Or perhaps "AllowClosedownGrabs", if that appeals.

Procyon

Member

Registered: 2008-05-07

Posts: 1,819

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

You guys with dmenu lockups should take a look at X.org's "AllowDeactivateGrabs" option. Or perhaps "AllowClosedownGrabs", if that appeals.

Good suggestion. Something to enable whether you have issues or not.

aerosuidae

Member

Registered: 2009-03-10

Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Hi, I'm Musca's author (yes, and an Archlinux user ).

The dmenu freeze problem was reported to me by others.  Clicking on another window, or having a window popup, while dmenu was active could result in a race condition and freeze both dmenu and Musca.  The Musca 20090311 release has just gone up (http://aerosuidae.net/musca.html#source) and contains a fix.

cheers

bgc1954

Member

From: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Registered: 2006-03-14

Posts: 1,160

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

You just had to know someone from Arch would be responsible for a project like this.

Just tried out the newest version and was using the older version all yesterday.  Me likee.   I especially appreciate the new config.h as I am using this on my old T21 laptop so don't have a Winblows key and in the old config.h you had to change all the modkey lines individually to change them to the alt key.  Now its defined in a couple of lines.  Thanks for that.  As I said, I like the unadorned look of this so I will be playing around with it longer and maybe put wmii in the back seat for now.

One slightly annoying thing I found was when trying to play good old Diablo II.  The screen is redrawn with an offset to the right and down so a bit of the playable screen area is cut off.  I'll play around with it some more today and see if I can straighten it out.  Hmmm...I seem to remember having problems getting Diablo to run in dwm or wmii as well.

Edit:  And by the way, I never had any dmenu issues at all yesterday.  Maybe just the way I used it, never ran into the key or mouse combo problems.

Last edited by bgc1954 (2009-03-10 14:58:32)

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Inxsible

Forum Fellow

From: Chicago

Registered: 2008-06-09

Posts: 9,183

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I previously thought that I would never use a tiling WM -- given the way I use a computer. But after having tried dwm and wmii, I think I could become a convert. I am not there yet, because there are a few things that I am not able to do but I am trying.

Knowing Musca is built by an Arch user suddenly increased the likelihood that I will try it out and see if it works for me

BTW: Musca (if pronounced Musk-aa,  or is that wrong?) -- in Hindi means Butter

Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-10 15:26:15)

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aerosuidae

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Registered: 2009-03-10

Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

BTW: Musca (if pronounced Musk-aa,  or is that wrong?) -- in Hindi means Butter

That looks right, though I have no idea what your accent and vowels sound like
Same pronunciation as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musca.

skottish

Forum Fellow

From: Here

Registered: 2006-06-16

Posts: 7,942

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Welcome to the forums aerosuidae.

I'm going to bump this to Community Contributions. It won't get buried as quickly, and, well, aerosuidae is one of us.

bgc1954

Member

From: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Registered: 2006-03-14

Posts: 1,160

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Well, I'm now using musca_20090312 and am quite happy with it.  I even got it to play nice with Diablo II by using the stacking mode once I start the game.  I just remembered that I have to use floating mode in wmii so tried out the stacking mode and that seems to make the Diablo window behave.

In 20090312 the config.h file has reverted back to multiple lines for keybindings so I'm back to editting a bunch of lines to switch to the alt key on my old laptop but that's not really a biggy.  I'm still switching back and forth from wmii to musca but seem to be staying with musca more lately.  Keep up the good work aerosuidae.

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Inxsible

Forum Fellow

From: Chicago

Registered: 2008-06-09

Posts: 9,183

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Well I am now a musca user. I found it really strange that we have so much third party software in AUR, but no musca - even though its built by an Archer. That's just plain wrong ! So I put in musca

I was tempted to create a sh file and copy it to /usr/bin, but then thought it would be better if people ran it from their /home itself. Let me know if that is ok. If not, I will add a sh which copies it to /usr/bin.

aerosuidae,
1) I couldn't find any info on what version this is. So I just put in 0.1. Let me know and I will change it and bump up the pkgrel.

2) If you could use the $pkgname-$pkgver format for your tar.gz, it would be great, because as of now, the build method will have to change everytime you release a new version since you use the current date in the tar.gz

3) Finally, I will orphan the package if you would like to maintain it yourself.

The trouble with your shortcuts is, that I use most of those shortcuts in my Openbox setup --and in my dwm. like Mod4+r - to start rTorrent etc. I guess, I will just have to relearn all my shortcuts and not use Mod4 in the shortcuts for starting apps.

But of what little I have used musca, I kinda like it a bit better than dwm - because there is a lack of info on dwm. Yes you can copy paste some things, but if you want to do something different, its hard to find info on. Musca seems to have quite a load of information...and I might bug you if I need something

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aerosuidae

Member

Registered: 2009-03-10

Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Well I am now a musca user. I found it really strange that we have so much third party software in AUR, but no musca - even though its built by an Archer. That's just plain wrong ! So I put in musca

Thanks.  I've never even looked at the process for creating a package for AUR.  If you are volunteering to maintain this (? ), get on the mailing list to hear about new releases: http://mail.aerosuidae.net/mailman/list … suidae.net

I was tempted to create a sh file and copy it to /usr/bin, but then thought it would be better if people ran it from their /home itself. Let me know if that is ok. If not, I will add a sh which copies it to /usr/bin.

No idea.  Out of interest: Why do you think it better it gets run from $HOME?

If you could use the $pkgname-$pkgver format for your tar.gz, it would be great, because as of now, the build method will have to change everytime you release a new version since you use the current date in the tar.gz

Oh.  I rather like dates as they're IMHO more informative and useful than a number.  Still, I can live with that.

Finally, I will orphan the package if you would like to maintain it yourself.

No, feel free to handle this.  Thanks.  If you decide to stop, just let me know I guess.

The trouble with your shortcuts is, that I use most of those shortcuts in my Openbox setup --and in my dwm. like Mod4+r - to start rTorrent etc. I guess, I will just have to relearn all my shortcuts and not use Mod4 in the shortcuts for starting apps.

No, don't let Musca dictate to you how to work. Customize the combinations that clash using .musca_start or config.h

But of what little I have used musca, I kinda like it a bit better than dwm - because there is a lack of info on dwm. Yes you can copy paste some things, but if you want to do something different, its hard to find info on. Musca seems to have quite a load of information...and I might bug you if I need something

Sure.  Or here or the mailing list.

cheers

Inxsible

Forum Fellow

From: Chicago

Registered: 2008-06-09

Posts: 9,183

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Thanks.  I've never even looked at the process for creating a package for AUR.  If you are volunteering to maintain this (? ), get on the mailing list to hear about new releases: http://mail.aerosuidae.net/mailman/list … suidae.net

Joined

No idea.  Out of interest: Why do you think it better it gets run from $HOME?

The PKGBUILD becomes easier. Also if its in $HOME, you can make as many changes as you want and run it. You can even change the path of the executable, if you want. One disadvantage is that if you have multiple users on the computer, you will have to install for each user.

Oh.  I rather like dates as they're IMHO more informative and useful than a number.  Still, I can live with that.

Well if you use the dates, I will change the build method for every release. No big deal. Let me know which way you prefer.

The trouble with your shortcuts is, that I use most of those shortcuts in my Openbox setup --and in my dwm. like Mod4+r - to start rTorrent etc. I guess, I will just have to relearn all my shortcuts and not use Mod4 in the shortcuts for starting apps.

No, don't let Musca dictate to you how to work. Customize the combinations that clash using .musca_start or config.h

Is there a limit to how many keybindings you can add?

I currently have all of these.

struct keymap keymaps[] = {
    { "Mod4+Shift+h",             "hsplit 1/2"    },
    { "Mod4+Shift+v",             "vsplit 1/2"    },
    { "Mod4+Shift+r",             "remove"        },
    { "Mod4+Shift+o",             "only"          },
    { "Mod4+Shift+k",             "kill"          },
    { "Mod4+Shift+c",             "cycle"         },
    { "Mod4+Left",          "focus left"    },
    { "Mod4+Right",         "focus right"   },
    { "Mod4+Up",            "focus up"      },
    { "Mod4+Down",          "focus down"    },
    { "Mod4+Next",          "use (next)"    },
    { "Mod4+Prior",         "use (prev)"    },
    { "Mod4+Tab",           "screen (next)" },
    { "Mod4+Shift+w",             "switch window" },
    { "Mod4+Shift+g",             "switch group"  },
    { "Mod4+x",             "shell"         },
    { "Mod4+Shift+m",             "command"       },
    { "Mod4+Shift+d",             "dedicate flip" },
    { "Mod4+Shift+a",             "catchall flip" },
    { "Mod4+Shift+u",             "undo"          },
    { "Mod4+Shift+s",             "stack flip"    },
    { "Mod4+Control+Left",  "resize left"   },
    { "Mod4+Control+Right", "resize right"  },
    { "Mod4+Control+Up",    "resize up"     },
    { "Mod4+Control+Down",  "resize down"   },
    { "Mod4+a",             "exec lxappearance"    },
    { "Mod4+b",             "exec recorder"    },
    { "Mod4+c",             "exec conky"    },
    { "Mod4+e",             "exec easytag"    },
    { "Mod4+f",             "exec pcmanfm"    },
    { "Mod4+g",             "exec geany"    },
    { "Mod4+t",             "exec urxvt -bg black -fg white"    },
};

If I add one more, the pkg builds fine, installs too...but when I log in, X starts for a microsecond and bombs. Here's dmesg | tail and it says that musca segfaults.

agpgart-intel 0000:00:00.0: putting AGP V2 device into 4x mode
nvidia 0000:01:00.0: putting AGP V2 device into 4x mode
musca[10748]: segfault at 41 ip b7eb2aa8 sp bfcb5d6c error 4 in libc-2.9.so[b7e40000+140000]
agpgart-intel 0000:00:00.0: AGP 2.0 bridge
agpgart-intel 0000:00:00.0: putting AGP V2 device into 4x mode
nvidia 0000:01:00.0: putting AGP V2 device into 4x mode
musca[11554]: segfault at 41 ip b7e7faa8 sp bfc82d2c error 4 in libc-2.9.so[b7e0d000+140000]
agpgart-intel 0000:00:00.0: AGP 2.0 bridge
agpgart-intel 0000:00:00.0: putting AGP V2 device into 4x mode
nvidia 0000:01:00.0: putting AGP V2 device into 4x mode

Just wanted to let you know. If its a bug, I will open it on your launchpad bugtracker.

Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-13 06:28:52)

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aerosuidae

Member

Registered: 2009-03-10

Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I guess we can take the package naming discussion to the mailing list.  I see you're not on the membership list yet though, so remember to check your mail for the confirm link.

A segfault always counts as a bug!  I believe I know the cause of this one.  There is a realloc() going wrong which is actually fixed in the dev version.  I'll push it live shortly.

bgc1954

Member

From: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Registered: 2006-03-14

Posts: 1,160

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Using the latest and greatest 0.9.1 now.  Haven't looked back at wmii for awhile now.  I first thought this manual screen splitting would not be to my liking but it is actually more of an arch-type kiss concept in that you are taking total control over your screen area.  Most of the time, especially on my laptop, I just use full screens and cycle through different windows with modkey+c.  It is nice to split up the screen on occasion to do some cutting and pasting stuff, though.

Using anything other than a tiling wm now seems unnatural to me...weird huh.  Thanks to aerosuidae for pointing out to me that I don't have to edit all the keybinding lines to change from Mod4 to Mod1.  You just have to swap the definitions in the config.h.  Why didn't I think of that?

struct modmask modmasks[] = {
        { "Mod4", Mod1Mask },
        { "Mod2", Mod2Mask },
        { "Mod3", Mod3Mask },
        { "Mod1", Mod4Mask },
        { "Mod5", Mod5Mask },
        { "Control", ControlMask },
        { "Shift",   ShiftMask   },

Edit: spelling

Last edited by bgc1954 (2009-03-13 16:20:27)

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz

Procyon

Member

Registered: 2008-05-07

Posts: 1,819

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I have an idea for using 5 frames and 4 windows like this:
+----------+
|             |
|             |
+-+-+-+-+
|  |  |  |   |
+-+-+-+-+

You have window 1 in the big frame, then the first frame in the lower area will be blank.
Switch to window 2 and window 1 goes to the first small frame, window 2 to big frame, and the second small frame goes blank.

The only two relevant keybindings would be for going to the next/previous window.

Do you think this possible?

Inxsible

Forum Fellow

From: Chicago

Registered: 2008-06-09

Posts: 9,183

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Using the latest and greatest 0.9.1 now.  Haven't looked back at wmii for awhile now.  I first thought this manual screen splitting would not be to my liking but it is actually more of an arch-type kiss concept in that you are taking total control over your screen area.  Most of the time, especially on my laptop, I just use full screens and cycle through different windows with modkey+c.  It is nice to split up the screen on occasion to do some cutting and pasting stuff, though.

+1 I haven't logged into the other bunch of WMs that I have installed. Although I am this close to uninstalling wmii. When I first started out with tiling WM's -- I wanted dynamic management, but having actually used them, i think manual is way better because I can decide which windows I want and how much space I want them to have.

Have you noticed some issues with the cycle function though? When I hit Modkey+Shift+c (yeah I changed the default), the window gets cycled, but doesn't get the focus...so when I type something, its actually typing in the window in the background.

Using anything other than a tiling wm now seems unnatural to me...weird huh.  Thanks to aerosuidae for pointing out to me that I don't have to edit all the keybinding lines to change from Mod4 to Mod1.  You just have to swap the definitions in the config.h.  Why didn't I think of that?

struct modmask modmasks[] = {
        { "Mod4", Mod1Mask },
        { "Mod2", Mod2Mask },
        { "Mod3", Mod3Mask },
        { "Mod1", Mod4Mask },
        { "Mod5", Mod5Mask },
        { "Control", ControlMask },
        { "Shift",   ShiftMask   },

Edit: spelling

I much prefer the Mod4 to be my modkey. I just changed the defaults to use the Shiftmask as well. Now I can use Mod4+r to start rTorrent and Mod4+w to open the web browser...I am used to those shortcuts since Openbox.

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bgc1954

Member

From: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Registered: 2006-03-14

Posts: 1,160

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Inxsible wrote:

I much prefer the Mod4 to be my modkey.

Sometimes you don't have a choice, my t21 thinkpad doesn't have a winblows key.

Inxsible wrote:

Have you noticed some issues with the cycle function though? When I hit Modkey+Shift+c (yeah I changed the default), the window gets cycled, but doesn't get the focus...so when I type something, its actually typing in the window in the background.

Nope.  Works fine here--on my laptop anyway.

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Inxsible

Forum Fellow

From: Chicago

Registered: 2008-06-09

Posts: 9,183

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Sometimes you don't have a choice, my t21 thinkpad doesn't have a winblows key.

Ahh ! The newer T61s do have them. Although the T61s cannot be called new anymore since they are replaced by the 400, 500 etc.

Nope.  Works fine here--on my laptop anyway.

Hmm...I guess I will have to play with them a little more to see if this happens again and if it is reproducible in certain circumstances.

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