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#26 2009-03-14 01:26:17

aerosuidae
Member
Registered: 2009-03-10
Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Procyon wrote:

I have an idea for using 5 frames and 4 windows like this:
You have window 1 in the big frame, then the first frame in the lower area will be blank.
Switch to window 2 and window 1 goes to the first small frame, window 2 to big frame, and the second small frame goes blank.
The only two relevant keybindings would be for going to the next/previous window. Do you think this possible?

This sounds like automatic tiling with master and stack areas.  One of Musca's manual tiling design aims is to never move windows around once they are visible (though if you hide them, different story).

This patch for dwm sounds at least similar to what you want:

http://dwm.suckless.org/patches/bottom_stack

Though I don't know if it will give the exact window movement you want, as the stacking area tends to reshuffle automatically.

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#27 2009-03-15 04:06:07

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Updated AUR package to get the latest release 0.9.2


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#28 2009-03-15 12:01:58

Runiq
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-10-29
Posts: 1,053

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Is there a way to get rid of the focus border on fullscreen apps like mplayer, for example?

Other than that, terrific job. smile It'll take a bit to get used to manual tiling after using dwm for a while, but it keeps growing on me.

EDIT: Also, is there a way to enable focus-follows-mouse other than redefining things in musca.c?

Last edited by Runiq (2009-03-15 12:08:01)

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#29 2009-03-15 12:09:15

Runiq
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-10-29
Posts: 1,053

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Ugh, double post... Please ignore/delete. hmm

Last edited by Runiq (2009-03-15 13:14:10)

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#30 2009-03-15 23:31:57

aerosuidae
Member
Registered: 2009-03-10
Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Runiq wrote:

Is there a way to get rid of the focus border on fullscreen apps like mplayer, for example?
EDIT: Also, is there a way to enable focus-follows-mouse other than redefining things in musca.c?

No, for both smile

For mplayer, you could temporarily use `set border_focus black`.  I'm considering implementing a full screen borderless option for stacking mode only.

Others have requested focus-follows-mouse, so it is on the todo list.  All we really need to do is listen to EnterNotify and LeaveNotify events.

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#31 2009-03-15 23:50:05

Procyon
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Registered: 2008-05-07
Posts: 1,819

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

How about an option to remove border entirely?

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#32 2009-03-16 04:55:50

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

aerosuidae wrote:
Runiq wrote:

Is there a way to get rid of the focus border on fullscreen apps like mplayer, for example?
EDIT: Also, is there a way to enable focus-follows-mouse other than redefining things in musca.c?

No, for both smile

For mplayer, you could temporarily use `set border_focus black`.  I'm considering implementing a full screen borderless option for stacking mode only.

Others have requested focus-follows-mouse, so it is on the todo list.  All we really need to do is listen to EnterNotify and LeaveNotify events.

I much prefer Click to Focus. But no border on a full screen video would be good. The blue border is kinda distracting while watching a movie. (You can tell, I just watched a movie tongue )

Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-16 04:55:59)


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#33 2009-03-16 04:56:50

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Procyon wrote:

How about an option to remove border entirely?

How would you know which window has focus, if you have multiple windows tiled?

Or are you talking about only in stacked mode?


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#34 2009-03-16 05:28:45

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

A few questions:

1) How do you assign a key binding to add a group - as in I hit the key and it simply waits for me to supply a group name - and then creates the group and switches to it?

2) What is a screen vs group? Can you elaborate on the differences? Because as of now, I haven't been able to get the M+Tab to do anything. Maybe I am just not clear on what you refer to screen as.

3) How can I get stalonetray to appear "on top". Once I start it, it shows, but then when I open any other app like firefox, stalonetray is not visible even when I close firefox. I have listed stalonetray, pidgin and skype in the unmanaged_windows array.

4) How can I make stalonetray appear on all groups/views

Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-16 05:33:19)


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#35 2009-03-16 06:51:26

aerosuidae
Member
Registered: 2009-03-10
Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Runiq wrote:

Is there a way to get rid of the focus border on fullscreen apps like mplayer, for example?
EDIT: Also, is there a way to enable focus-follows-mouse other than redefining things in musca.c?

Ok, try 0.9.3 for these features.

For focus-follows-mouse, use the command set focus_follow_mouse 1|0. it is a boolean setting: 1=on. 0=off.

For hiding the border, you can now use the command border on|off to toggle the border on a frame by frame basis in tiling mode only.  As someone said, this makes it hard to know when the borderless frame has focus, so be careful!  I may fix that with a little focus popup window like ratpoison does, but for now you have to remember smile

Procyon wrote:

How about an option to remove border entirely?

Ok, in 0.9.3, use the set border_width <pixel> command.  The minimum width is 1.  If you want 0, use the border on|off described above.

All commands can of course be used with M+m on the fly or run from .musca_start.

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#36 2009-03-16 07:13:42

aerosuidae
Member
Registered: 2009-03-10
Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Inxsible wrote:

1) How do you assign a key binding to add a group - as in I hit the key and it simply waits for me to supply a group name - and then creates the group and switches to it?

No way to do this yet.  Either predefine your groups in .musca_start, or use the M+m command line.  Or I suppose you could script it externally somehow, maybe with something like Xdialog to grab input for the name.

Inxsible wrote:

2) What is a screen vs group? Can you elaborate on the differences? Because as of now, I haven't been able to get the M+Tab to do anything. Maybe I am just not clear on what you refer to screen as.

A screen is an X screen, which usually means a monitor unless you're running something like Xinerama.  A window group is like a virtual desktop, but less complex.  If you have multiple screens, Musca will create a default group on each screen which you can cycle between with M+Tab, or click to focus.

Inxsible wrote:

3) How can I get stalonetray to appear "on top". Once I start it, it shows, but then when I open any other app like firefox, stalonetray is not visible even when I close firefox. I have listed stalonetray, pidgin and skype in the unmanaged_windows array.

I am not familiar with stalonetray specifically, but to make any unmanaged window always viewable you need to tell the window group not to obscure it with the pad left right top bottom command (where left/right/top/bottom are pixel values relative to the screen edge).  Yes, this needs to be done for every group if you want to see the unmanaged app all the time.

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#37 2009-03-16 07:15:51

Runiq
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-10-29
Posts: 1,053

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

aerosuidae wrote:
Runiq wrote:

Is there a way to get rid of the focus border on fullscreen apps like mplayer, for example?
EDIT: Also, is there a way to enable focus-follows-mouse other than redefining things in musca.c?

Ok, try 0.9.3 for these features.

For focus-follows-mouse, use the command set focus_follow_mouse 1|0. it is a boolean setting: 1=on. 0=off.

Wow, you're fast, man smile

EDIT: Thanks for clearing up what groups are, I kinda missed my 9 dwm tags. tongue

Inxsible wrote:
Procyon wrote:

How about an option to remove border entirely?

How would you know which window has focus, if you have multiple windows tiled?

Or are you talking about only in stacked mode?

I suppose it's somehow possible to get the focused window with some X function call and pipe it back to something like dzen or conky, isn't it? I'll try to come up with something as soon as I have time... (unless you people are faster of course, which is very, very likely)

Last edited by Runiq (2009-03-16 07:20:40)

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#38 2009-03-16 15:19:16

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Runiq wrote:

Wow, you're fast, man

EDIT: Thanks for clearing up what groups are, I kinda missed my 9 dwm tags.

I must say !!!

I gotta update the AUR package again, but it will have to wait until I get back home after work wink

9 tags?? -- I always thought that was a bit too much. I reduced it to 5 in my dwm -- and I still ended up NOT using 2 of them. I guess, when you are tiling -- whats the need of virtual desktops? The only thing I used to do was put rtorrent on another desktop and the music player on another since I didn't want to monitor them constantly. All the other windows would be on the main.

Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-16 15:26:20)


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#39 2009-03-16 15:34:36

bgc1954
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 2006-03-14
Posts: 1,120

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Inxsible wrote:

But no border on a full screen video would be good. The blue border is kinda distracting while watching a movie.

I guess I'm kinda old school.  Ever since I started using musca, I changed the blue border to black in the config.h and it kind of disappears until I need another window and then I just look for the gray border to change focus too, if needed.  I tend to stick to fullscreen though and change screens with M+c.


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz

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#40 2009-03-16 15:44:13

Runiq
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-10-29
Posts: 1,053

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Inxsible wrote:

9 tags?? -- I always thought that was a bit too much. I reduced it to 5 in my dwm -- and I still ended up NOT using 2 of them. I guess, when you are tiling -- whats the need of virtual desktops? The only thing I used to do was put rtorrent on another desktop and the music player on another since I didn't want to monitor them constantly. All the other windows would be on the main.

Yeah well, I tend to keep (software) things neatly organized. I guess it was a matter of using as many as possible after I got them all configured the way I wanted (opening terminal apps in a new urxvtc window if they aren't started directly from within a term, and applying the proper tag to said term - still haven't found a global solution for first issue). I use the fact that those are "tags", not "desktops" a lot, which means I usually have 3-5 of them active (Also had shortcuts for the most-used combinations, which made them convenient to use).

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#41 2009-03-16 16:54:54

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

bgc1954 wrote:

Inxsible wrote:

But no border on a full screen video would be good. The blue border is kinda distracting while watching a movie.

I guess I'm kinda old school.  Ever since I started using musca, I changed the blue border to black in the config.h and it kind of disappears until I need another window and then I just look for the gray border to change focus too, if needed.  I tend to stick to fullscreen though and change screens with M+c.

yeah, I might do that until Sean comes up with a solution to change the color on the fly wink...but then when you have multiple windows open while working -- which I do -- it gets hard to see which window has focus. And you don't want to type something inadvertently in any of your code windows just to find out that nothing runs anymore wink

I like the tiling mode when I am editing something in a window and executing it in the terminal and such.


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#42 2009-03-16 20:04:17

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Added a wiki page for Musca a few days back. Please feel free to add anything else that you might want new users to know about. Although, aerosuidae does have a pretty neat explanation on his webpage.


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#43 2009-03-16 21:55:37

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I just tried updating to 0.9.3 and I have a lot of issues. I get a 1 inch thick blue border around the tag. I cannot start up any applications except terminal which starts up at the lower right corner and I cannot see the whole terminal.

Is anyone else facing this?

EDIT : Never mind, I was still using the old config.h. Replacing it with the new one fixes it.

Last edited by Inxsible (2009-03-17 05:56:57)


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#44 2009-03-17 05:41:55

stryder
Member
Registered: 2009-02-28
Posts: 498

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

I usually have my audacious player and playlist editor stacked vertically. There doesn't seem to be any way to do this, or even have the player and editor in different frames like a multi-window app. When opened, both windows are centered, with the player behind the editor. Apart from using it only in a stacking window group, does anyone have any suggestions?

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#45 2009-03-17 05:59:37

Inxsible
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From: Chicago
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 9,071

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

stryder wrote:

I usually have my audacious player and playlist editor stacked vertically. There doesn't seem to be any way to do this, or even have the player and editor in different frames like a multi-window app. When opened, both windows are centered, with the player behind the editor. Apart from using it only in a stacking window group, does anyone have any suggestions?

Mod+v will stack them vertically. This is what I normally do when I start my music player
Mod+m >> add media  - This will create a new group called media and then move to it. Then I use my shortcut keys to start up my music player, and then open up the playlist. And then simply hit Mod+v. The player and the play list will get stacked vertically. You can skip creating a new group, if you want it on the default group itself.


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#46 2009-03-17 06:36:45

stryder
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Registered: 2009-02-28
Posts: 498

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Thanks for the reply. Mod+v basically splits the frame into two stacked frames. The player and editor stays in the top frame but comes apart vertically with the editor a distance above the player BUT the player is now half outside the bottom of the frame. Closing the editor moves the player back to the center of the frame. If instead I Mod+u to undo the Mod+v, the two windows now moves into two frames, if there is a free frame.

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#47 2009-03-17 12:15:27

aerosuidae
Member
Registered: 2009-03-10
Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

stryder wrote:

Thanks for the reply. Mod+v basically splits the frame into two stacked frames. The player and editor stays in the top frame but comes apart vertically with the editor a distance above the player BUT the player is now half outside the bottom of the frame. Closing the editor moves the player back to the center of the frame. If instead I Mod+u to undo the Mod+v, the two windows now moves into two frames, if there is a free frame.

I see what you mean.  The equalizer window also seems intent on staying over top of the main audacious window here.  I think audacious might be looking for extended window manager hints that Musca does not yet support.

Another option for tiling mode is tell Musca to unmanage the "Audacious" window class (Mod+m -> manage off Audacious), and give a window group some padding (Mod+m -> pad 0 400 0 0) so you can see the player.

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#48 2009-03-17 13:39:13

stryder
Member
Registered: 2009-02-28
Posts: 498

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Thanks. My simplest solution is to open the playlist editor window whenever I need to look at it or add songs (alt-e) and then closing it when I'm done (alt-e again). :-)

Musca is my first tiling window manager (and it has been a good experience so far) so forgive me if I am asking something very obvious. Whenever there is an empty frame and a window opens in another frame that already has a window, the first window gets bumped into the empty frame while the new window occupies the original frame. For example, when I download the latest 9.4.tar.gz from musca, the download window will bump the main firefox window to an empty frame. Is this standard behaviour? I realize I can keep firefox where it should be by dedicating the frame to it but it also means I cannot put any other program window there... Is there a way to disable this behaviour? Basically if I put a window in a frame that's where I want it to be. If I have to keep swapping, or always ensure that no empty frames exist, that would take up unnecessary attention.

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#49 2009-03-17 15:12:00

aerosuidae
Member
Registered: 2009-03-10
Posts: 248

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

stryder wrote:

Musca is my first tiling window manager (and it has been a good experience so far) so forgive me if I am asking something very obvious. Whenever there is an empty frame and a window opens in another frame that already has a window, the first window gets bumped into the empty frame while the new window occupies the original frame. For example, when I download the latest 9.4.tar.gz from musca, the download window will bump the main firefox window to an empty frame. Is this standard behaviour? I realize I can keep firefox where it should be by dedicating the frame to it but it also means I cannot put any other program window there... Is there a way to disable this behaviour? Basically if I put a window in a frame that's where I want it to be. If I have to keep swapping, or always ensure that no empty frames exist, that would take up unnecessary attention.

That is a good question.  Short answer: yes, the bahavior is default, and currently you can't disable it.

Longer answer:  Musca won't move windows around once they are visible in a frame, and here the firefox downloads window is taking focus so the original firefox window is technically hidden and thus considered fair game for moving.  I agree that this behavior in this instance can be annoying.  However, the same behavior is desirable when you're initially dividing up the screen, when you probably want apps to just get on with making themselves visible instead of having to go to each new frame and manually display an app.

I havn't yet figured out how to get the best of both worlds.  One possible solution is to have a setting like open_frame=<current|empty> where current would mean all new windows open in the focused frame and empty would mean all new windows first try to find an empty frame and only use the current frame as a last resort.

What do you think?

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#50 2009-03-17 15:45:46

Procyon
Member
Registered: 2008-05-07
Posts: 1,819

Re: Musca (Tiling Window Manager)

Can you check for dialog windows?

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