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#1 2009-04-14 03:11:48

Zetsumei
Member
From: NC
Registered: 2007-09-13
Posts: 156

Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

It'll be probably a week as I wanna wait for my new monitor to arrive, but I'm thinking about moving back to Arch.  I've used Arch before for a few months off and on, but I could never stay here, I don't know why but I just couldn't.  Anyone have any advice on what I should give a shot at this time?  I've only really used Openbox the last few times and I'm trying to stay away from KDE and Gnome.  What should I give a try and what's the learning curve for it like?  Also, if I were to add hard drives in at a later time, would they auto-recognize or would I have to mount them in /etc/fstab myself?  If so, how would I find the name of it (/dev/sdb4, etc)?

Is Arch even for me though?  I mainly do web dev, music, some games (which I think should work in wine), and graphics editing.  Now, I've bought the Adobe suite so would that run perfectly normal in wine or should I dual boot for that?  Or would a virtual box of Vista be enough for it?  Yes, I know it's Vista, but it's what I've bought (I must of been high when I did it to).  I'm not worried about RAM and CPU requirements for the Virtualbox, so would that be a better route than a dual boot.  Because every time I try and dual-boot I end up screwing something up and have to re-format anyways, so what would you suggest?

When I am ready, I still need to find some applications that would be useful for me in Arch, etc.  But how would this partition scheme work for something like this on a 750gb drive?

/boot - 100mb
/ - 20gb
/var - 200gb
/home - rest of drive

Also, any applications you could recommend I give a shot for the last and hopefully good experience here.

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#2 2009-04-14 03:19:00

Ronin-Sage
Member
Registered: 2008-10-24
Posts: 153
Website

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

As far as WM, might I suggest Enlightenment(e17)?
- Pros: [inherently?] pleasing to the eye, extremely customizable(support for "profiles", too), very fast
- Neutral: moderate learning-curve
- Cons: some of the modules are unstable at times

I'm not sure what you meant by "any applications you could recommend"--you mean desktop apps in general?

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#3 2009-04-14 03:39:17

evr
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
Registered: 2009-01-23
Posts: 554

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

are you looking for anything specific in a WM/DE? There are alot of choices out there if you're looking for something in particular.  Also, I like using virtualization over dual booting just for the fact that you don't have to completely shut down one system to use the other.  So if you have the system resources, you might as well.

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#4 2009-04-14 03:50:11

Berticus
Member
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 731

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

You're very vague. Need specifics to give suggestions, because there's a TON of applications that can do a bunch of things.

I would still suggest dual booting, but have it all planned out before you do anything. Then simply follow each step to the letter.

For adding new hard drives, I suggest using LVM. That way instead of having a weird hierarchy, e.g. /mnt/harddrive1, you can keep a fairly simply one and expand it, like software RAID. Or if you can hardware RAID your hard drives, definitely opt for that.

For your windows application, I personally like to keep a clean linux system. So that would mean no wine. I dual boot, and put all my games in windows. For productivity in Windows, I use virtualization. If your CPU has virtualizing technology, definitely look into linux-kvm and qemu, otherwise opt for VirtualBox.

You've got a very large /var partition there. Instead, you could do something like:
/boot - 64M
/ - 20G
/var - 10G
/home - rest of drive

Even that's being very modest. As for DE/WM, that's really up to you. I used to think I would stick with GNOME forever. However, the xmonad model was just too enticing I had to give it a try. Found out I loved tiling window managers. However, there was just something slightly off with it, and then I learned about the difference between manual and dynamic tiling managers, and am thinking about having two wm - dwm and ratpoison. One dynamic, one manual, with the manual being my main one. Learning curve for most window managers are pretty much negligible. Open up the browser, keep it open to the guide/tour/manual/index, and wane off it. You'll find the keybindings will naturally come to you in no time. Maybe 5 minutes, not even, and you'll have the essential keybindings down, the rest will follow.

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#5 2009-04-14 03:50:44

Zetsumei
Member
From: NC
Registered: 2007-09-13
Posts: 156

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

You think Virtualbox would run CS4 decently though?  And I like to go as minimalistic as possible.  I'd love to go full command line, but I'm not that comfortable with it yet.

I assumed /var was where all the installed programs were stored or am I wrong?

Also, linux-kvm, isn't that the same as using Virtualbox or no?  I'm not sure if my CPU has virtualizing technology, but I believe it does.  Intel C2D E8400.

Last edited by Zetsumei (2009-04-14 03:54:40)

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#6 2009-04-14 03:54:06

LeoSolaris
Member
From: South Carolina
Registered: 2008-03-30
Posts: 354

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

E17 is a nice bit of fun, or you could try a straight up Compiz desktop. Personally I use Openbox, but i have been thinking about making a second user to try out a Compiz desktop without all of the Gnome or KDE clutter.

I'll recommend a VM over duel boot if you have the memory and CPU horsepower to back it up. (if it's less than 2 years old you're probably pretty good) The VM allows more flexible switching between the systems, you can set it to a specific desktop so all you have to do is switch between them with a keystroke, and it will run everything for Windows flawlessly, unlike Wine. (Not knocking wine but it's not perfect yet.)

Welcome back!

For apps:

web dev: you could try bluefish. I am not sure how it compares to others, but I rather like it. (Only used it for a class for about two weeks)

Music: depends on your style to be honest. if you really wanted to, you could use VLC to play music. There are more music players in Linux than any other type of app. At least from what I have found so far.

Graphics editing: Well there is always GIMP. It has a sharp learning curve, but it is just as functional as Photoshop. I think there is a Gimpshop that makes it more like Photoshop. Icescape is another one, and again high learning curve. (That might just be because I am still not exactly sure what Icescape is supposed to be used for...) There are others, but they generally are not on the technical level of Photoshop/GIMP.

Games...   Well there is a games repo that has a few nice things in it. If your games play in Wine, cool! If not, look for the VM that virtualizes the GPU so you get a little better gaming. If your really serious about the games, dual booting is the only way to go. (Hint for dual boots... install Windows first, then shrink it to to left side in Gparted, which is the beginning of the disk in English, before making partitions. Gparted does make it a little easier to do in my opinion.)

Edit: Ok...  minimalistic as possible...   hmm ...         Awesome  Ratpoison and perhaps Musica all seem to be the minimal types. dvtm with screen is another that just came to mind...

Last edited by LeoSolaris (2009-04-14 03:59:30)


I keep getting distracted from my webserver project...

huh? oooh...  shiny!

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#7 2009-04-14 03:58:19

Zetsumei
Member
From: NC
Registered: 2007-09-13
Posts: 156

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

I think I will just go full linux and use a VM for my Photoshop and a couple games.  Now, anyone think my system would handle running a VM just about all the time?

Intel C2D E8400 @ 3.8ghz, 8gb DDR2 1600 RAM, nVidia GeForce GTX260 896mb Video

And, I am going to give vim a try, it looks really cool to me.  And ncmpcpp is also good it seems.  Now, should I mess with running a screen session all the time or no since I'll have a 22" monitor as the main screen and a 19" for the second one?

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#8 2009-04-14 04:09:20

LeoSolaris
Member
From: South Carolina
Registered: 2008-03-30
Posts: 354

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

Ya..   you're good for VM.  I have an older C2D and an nVidia card that isn't half yours in my laptop, and it runs just fine. I haven't checked out the GPU virtualization yet.

You could run the screen session, but I would try to get used to each thing one at a time so you do not get overwhelmed. Step by step and patience young grasshopper!  ~laughs~   Learn the new setup, get the VM installed and working, then start experimenting. Vim is pretty good and has a vim-tutor to teach ya. It's not all that hard. Screen is equally not all that difficult.

Check out http://kmandla.wordpress.com for some some pointers on what to experiment with. (K.Mandla is pretty good at the minimal approach. That blog convinced me to try Openbox as well as a ton of other lightweight alternatives.)


I keep getting distracted from my webserver project...

huh? oooh...  shiny!

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#9 2009-04-14 04:24:36

fukawi2
Ex-Administratorino
From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,217
Website

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

Zetsumei wrote:

/boot - 100mb
/ - 20gb
/var - 200gb
/home - rest of drive

Whoa, what are you planning on putting in your /var partition?? I run with 4gb just fine, as long as you remember to run pacman -Sc occasionally. cool

Other than that, it looks like a pretty sane scheme. I'd suggest looking at utilizing LVM for at least your /home in case you ever outgrow the size you make it.

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#10 2009-04-14 04:57:34

Zetsumei
Member
From: NC
Registered: 2007-09-13
Posts: 156

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

What is LVM?  Does that just mean I make the /home logical instead of primary or something?

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#11 2009-04-14 05:14:51

moonman
Member
Registered: 2009-03-11
Posts: 5

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

LVM allows you to add to a "disk" on the fly, and throw storage around as you need it.
I've got 3x 500gb drives all in my /srv mount point. If I wanted more space, i can add another in, and make my /srv 2TB.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lvm

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#12 2009-04-14 05:36:50

Berticus
Member
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 731

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

Even if your CPU didn't have virtualization, if you have a good enough processor, CS4 in VM won't lag. I have a AMD Athlon64 X2 4800+, it's the 939 Socket version, so no AMD-V, but I can use orcad pspice, matlab, mathematica, and maple in it just fine, and those are probably more resource intensive than CS4.

I don't think you can play games through VM though, which is why I suggest still going with a dual boot. Which reminds me, why do people spell it duel? It's not a battle... It's duality, like two.

Large /var and /usr are necessary if you're going to be installing Linux games. That's games written for Linux, not sure what would be necessary for wine and games. I used to have /var and /usr only a few gigs large. Then I installed Savage2 and added the Arch Linux game repo. Now I have /var and /usr as big as 10G, which should hopefully be more than enough.

For getting as close to command line as you can, you should check out the ArchLinux LnF (light and fast) Award threads. Some of the screenshot posts have a list of programs running.

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#13 2009-04-14 06:16:00

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,839

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

Zetsumei wrote:

Is Arch even for me though?

Since you asked, I would say no, based on this and other posts of yours, both here and in #archlinux. This is not intended to as any kind of criticism. Arch requires a certain amount of linux knowledge and experience, and you have already acknowledged your lack of ability in command line operation, something that is considered essential around here.

As with every other post here, this is just an opinion, so you are free to disregard it if you want.

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#14 2009-04-14 11:39:10

Zetsumei
Member
From: NC
Registered: 2007-09-13
Posts: 156

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

Berticus wrote:

Even if your CPU didn't have virtualization, if you have a good enough processor, CS4 in VM won't lag. I have a AMD Athlon64 X2 4800+, it's the 939 Socket version, so no AMD-V, but I can use orcad pspice, matlab, mathematica, and maple in it just fine, and those are probably more resource intensive than CS4.

You play maple?  I didn't think I'd meet someone else who played that game lols.  But I've quit it as it sucked me dry on money.

I will go ahead and try it again.  Right now I'm going around looking at how to get those linux command line colors smile.

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#15 2009-04-14 13:37:40

windtalker
Member
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 220

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

I think I will just go full linux and use a VM for my Photoshop

I ran Photoshop in wine last year and it ran well.
No lagging or freezing and everything functioned as if it were in Windows.
Dunno what games you play but I run a few of those in wine also and they do well.
They're not action games however but are games like Mahjongg, Bookworm etc.
The only action game that interests me is Vavoom [Doom] which I have all the iwads for and it's available in AUR.

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#16 2009-04-14 14:10:58

peets
Member
From: Montreal
Registered: 2007-01-11
Posts: 936
Website

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

You play maple too? Sweet! In college we would sit through entire lectures playing that game.

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#17 2009-04-14 14:29:14

Zetsumei
Member
From: NC
Registered: 2007-09-13
Posts: 156

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

I didn't really play play it.  I more of merchanted in it or memory edited it.  The whole grindfest didn't settle with me.

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#18 2009-04-14 16:23:33

Berticus
Member
Registered: 2008-06-11
Posts: 731

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

I'm actually not sure what game you're talking about... I was talking about Maplesoft's Maple -- the mathematical software. I also had LabView in there.

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#19 2009-04-14 18:08:31

Zetsumei
Member
From: NC
Registered: 2007-09-13
Posts: 156

Re: Moving back to Arch, but got a few things I'm kinda 'scared' about :(

Oh, lols.  I was talking about Maplestory -turns red-

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