Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

ngoonee · 2009-07-20 01:41:44

Hi all,

Just read this thread. The poster is quite obviously self-sufficient in terms of finding the information he needed for the first install, and getting help from various people, plus he's trying on his own to understand how things work instead of just following directions. A bit further down, however, someone mentions the Beginner's Guide and he's surprised because he hadn't actually seen that yet.

I just went to refresh my memory, and the Beginner's Guide is prominent in the main wiki page (wiki.archlinux.org), but NOT in the main arch page (www.archlinux.org). I would like to suggest that the Beginner's Guide be added as a new line under 'installation' in the Documentation section, right-side of the page.

My reasoning is that anyone who's downloading Arch would be SURE to read the Arch main page, so this very important document should be there.

fukawi2 · 2009-07-20 05:01:21

IMHO, anyone installing Arch should be SURE to check the wiki, especially if they have problems.

Either way, the best place for this is in the bug tracker as a Feature Request.

ngoonee · 2009-07-20 06:02:27

Thanks for your response, I'll post up the request now.

To continue the discussion, I believe the natural order of things for SOME of those installing would be to go to the front page and click "Installation Guide". After all, the Beginner's Guide is primarily for those who are installing for the first time, while the wiki as a whole is really for those who are configuring their system which has already been installed successfully.

.:B:. · 2009-07-20 06:41:25

People who think they can pull it off without documentation will still ignore it even if you write it on their forehead.

ngoonee · 2009-07-20 06:55:26

Agreed, but in the link I posted up, the OP describes in detail what he's done for the install, and its obvious he's following the Installation Guide and trying to understand it. However he did not know of the existance of the Beginner's Guide, therefore missing some information which is only there, as well as a lot of the additional 'simple' configuration steps.

When I first installed, I followed the Beginner's Guide, fortunately. I would not have been able to install based only on the Installation Guide, simply because I wouldn't have understood the import of some of the steps described.

bernarcher · 2009-07-20 08:20:58

The problem is that many take "beginner" as "noob" (as did I) and thus miss some viable information.

I would have preferred something like "first steps to Arch installation" or the like. It would certainly have saved me from at least one faulty installation attempt.

Last edited by bernarcher (2009-07-20 08:21:23)

ngoonee · 2009-07-20 08:29:00

Ah yes, the ego bit of it. In my (admittedly biased) opinion, those who won't admit their relative 'beginner-ness' deserve everything that happens, up to and including a total meltdown of their machine =p.

That having been said, something more along the lines of "if you've never done this before" is a bit more clear than "beginner", though they mean the same thing.

fukawi2 · 2009-07-20 08:56:28

bernarcher wrote:

It would certainly have saved me from at least one faulty installation attempt.

That's part of the induction program. All Arch users must install at least 3 times in their first 12 months of using Arch

tomk · 2009-07-20 09:04:54

The official Install Guide is created and maintained by the Arch dev team, and is therefore eligible for inclusion on the home page. The Beginner's Guide is a community-produced extra, so the wiki is the most appropriate place for it.

Dusty · 2009-07-20 13:19:35

Bah, there's lots of non-official, semi-official, and quasi-official stuff on the home page, and we all know the install guide is poorly maintained compared to the beginner's guide. The only problem I have with putting the link on the home page is that the guy responsible for the home page is a lazy jackass who never gets anything done (and I'm not referring to Simo, though we've been confused in the past ;-))

kgas · 2009-07-20 13:31:36

IMHO only few users installed arch as a first linux OS. Most are from other distros and a common understanding is, they have a minimal knowledge and how to handle the conf files and other set-up files. Referring wiki and a search will solve most of the problems. Some one may be in hurry and expect to get every thing out of box.

ozar · 2009-07-20 14:46:14

It would be helpful if Linux users that want to give Arch a go would read through the entire installation guide and make sure that they understand it before they begin the installation, but like someone else said above, many think they can do it without any instructions. Another link on the front page probably won't help them. Surely those that do want to read instructions will find all that they need by following the two links already provided.

Rather than clutter the home page with more links, perhaps it would be better to put a link to the Beginners Guide at the beginning of the Installation Guide and reference it as additional help for new Arch users.

Just a thought.

ngoonee · 2009-07-20 15:09:38

Ah, I like ozar's idea a lot. Very concise and simple.

@kgas, I installed Arch after using Ubuntu for quite a period of time (including its variants, especially Ubuntu Studio) as well as having tried out sidux, fedora (this was a disaster for me due to the kernel's problem with Intel on-board LAN's at the time) and Mint. Even with all this so-called 'experience', I was certainly unprepared for the conf files I had to go through for the install. Even a simple thing like time-zone information had me scrambling to the wiki.

brisbin33 · 2009-07-20 16:14:23

make the download link point to the beginners guide, put the real download link at the bottom of said guide, enforce slow scrolling programmatically.

!next

joking aside, i like ozar's idea too... but those users who ignore the useful, obvious, and abundant (but often unexpected) information found around http://*.archlinux.org will probably always do so.

droog · 2009-07-24 21:49:35

I'd leave it the same, It's easier than ever to install and if someone can't take the time to read through the excellent beginner guide then
It's not someone we should cater too.

/man edited to fix grammar but did the antifix..

also +1 for ozar.

Dusty wrote:

The only problem I have with putting the link on the home page is that the guy responsible for the home page is a lazy jackass who never gets anything done (and I'm not referring to Simo, though we've been confused in the past ;-))

kind of interesting I hope you're not talking about the supercool Mr. Thayer.

Personal opinion here.
Allan can pick up aircraft carriers and a tank in each hand.
dusty and thayer can pick up a humvee.
phrakture might be able to pick up a car.

Last edited by droog (2009-07-24 22:41:01)

tlaloc · 2009-07-25 08:06:17

Perhaps we should link the Beginners Guide from the homepage under a heading like "Starting with Arch" - then the ego-factor wouldn't matter.

Misfit138 · 2009-07-25 20:14:48

ozar wrote:

..Rather than clutter the home page with more links, perhaps it would be better to put a link to the Beginners Guide at the beginning of the Installation Guide and reference it as additional help for new Arch users.
Just a thought.

It's there already...at the top of the article on the right side; "Related Articles
Beginners Guide (If you are new to Arch)".

ozar · 2009-07-26 02:55:29

Misfit138 wrote:

It's there already...at the top of the article on the right side; "Related Articles
Beginners Guide (If you are new to Arch)".

Yep, it sure is... I looked but missed it. With it posted there and also in the wiki, I personally see no reason to post it elsewhere.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-07-20 01:41:44

Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#2 2009-07-20 05:01:21

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#3 2009-07-20 06:02:27

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#4 2009-07-20 06:41:25

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#5 2009-07-20 06:55:26

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#6 2009-07-20 08:20:58

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#7 2009-07-20 08:29:00

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#8 2009-07-20 08:56:28

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#9 2009-07-20 09:04:54

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#10 2009-07-20 13:19:35

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#11 2009-07-20 13:31:36

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#12 2009-07-20 14:46:14

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#13 2009-07-20 15:09:38

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#14 2009-07-20 16:14:23

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#15 2009-07-24 21:49:35

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#16 2009-07-25 08:06:17

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#17 2009-07-25 20:14:48

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

#18 2009-07-26 02:55:29

Re: Suggestion: Add Beginner's Guide to archlinux.org

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