Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

xc1024 · 2009-11-10 20:32:00

Hi. Just wanted to ask you about advice on my issue. I think about making an Arch-based, heavily gaming-focused LiveDVD with NVidia propertiary kernel modules to run 3D games. My question is - would it be OK from legal viewpoint to sell it for profit? I've read a bit on the topic and I think I'll try to solve NVidia driver problem by oferring them as separate download like Ubuntu and some other distros do. Any clues, suggestions, criticism?

.:B:. · 2009-11-10 21:15:06

If you offer support I think you can ask money for it. If you just provide it as-is all you can ask is shipping and production costs, afaik.

fukawi2 · 2009-11-10 21:32:40

From the nvidia license:

2.1.2 Linux/FreeBSD Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms
of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux or
FreeBSD operating systems, or other operating systems derived from the
source code to these operating systems, may be copied and redistributed,
provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way
(except for unzipping of compressed files).

So long as what you are distributing is designed solely for Linux/FreeBSD then you are free to copy and distribute unmodified binaries.

As far the GPL goes, my understanding is that you're free to sell it for as much as you like, however you must continue to license it under the GPL, which means you must include access to the source code in the sale price. This means that only 1 person has to buy it, then they can redistribute it for free to anyone else who wants it, thereby destroying your business model.

That's my understanding anyway, I stand to be corrected as always

Last edited by fukawi2 (2009-11-10 21:33:01)

xc1024 · 2009-11-10 22:09:27

@fukawi2 - That's fine. I aim for customers that aren't very computer-conscious, the market Linux needs to catch up at. I will probably divide the distro website into two parts - average button pusher one and more advanced users one. The customer will have links to download, manual, forums, etc. Advanced users part will have stuff like remaster scripts, packages download, problem solutions too complicated for normal users, etc going with what's in normal section. I know this kind of user division may be discriminating, but the facts are that normal users are just way too scared to see words like "bugfix", "changelog", "remaster", "script", "IDE", "SATA", "kernel" and so on. I have to be gentle with this kind of hiding stuff. I'll think of some solution to that when I have first alpha ready.
Even if someone borrows my idea, I've got nothing to complain about. True, I'll make the software compilation. However, software wasn't written by me and I didn't even submit a byte of a patch yet, so I don't have any right to become jealous about someone else doing this idea as well or better than me. Plus it's free software, it's all about sharing, right ? ;-)
I have a question about packaging those drivers. Does making them into auto-install packages count as modifiying binaries?

@B - Depends on what did you mean by support. I'm not as much of noob now as much I was 2 years ago when I learnt about Linux, but I think I may safely say I still rely on Google when solving stuff like broken audio. And I rely heavily. And, there are just so many hardware configurations out there. How is it possible for me to solve the problem on computer I never saw in my life? I'll try my best of course, but that cannot sometimes be enough.

Daenyth · 2009-11-10 22:29:57

I'm mostly sure that with GPL stuff like this you are only allowed to charge enough to cover the cost of disks and shipping unless you offer support.

Themaister · 2009-11-10 22:53:01

I think you can charge as much as you want actually, but you have to give the source when confronted (so no point overpricing stuff). Not really sure about this though. You always have the GPL FAQ.

olovram · 2009-11-10 23:03:57

Themaister wrote:

I think you can charge as much as you want actually, but you have to give the source when confronted (so no point overpricing stuff). Not really sure about this though. You always have the GPL FAQ.

+1

Ranguvar · 2009-11-10 23:08:13

You either have to also give the source, or provide a written offer to do so
As for price, you can set whatever price you like. The only point price comes in is if you offer the source as a written offer for a source DVD or something and someone wants it, you _can_ charge for that DVD, but only reasonable cost for the blank DVD + shipping/etc. See subsection b.) below.

GPLv3:

6. Conveying Non-Source Forms.

  You may convey a covered work in object code form under the terms
of sections 4 and 5, provided that you also convey the
machine-readable Corresponding Source under the terms of this License,
in one of these ways:

    a) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product
    (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by the
    Corresponding Source fixed on a durable physical medium
    customarily used for software interchange.

    b) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product
    (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by a
    written offer, valid for at least three years and valid for as
    long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product
    model, to give anyone who possesses the object code either (1) a
    copy of the Corresponding Source for all the software in the
    product that is covered by this License, on a durable physical
    medium customarily used for software interchange, for a price no
    more than your reasonable cost of physically performing this
    conveying of source, or (2) access to copy the
    Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge.

    c) Convey individual copies of the object code with a copy of the
    written offer to provide the Corresponding Source.  This
    alternative is allowed only occasionally and noncommercially, and
    only if you received the object code with such an offer, in accord
    with subsection 6b.

    d) Convey the object code by offering access from a designated
    place (gratis or for a charge), and offer equivalent access to the
    Corresponding Source in the same way through the same place at no
    further charge.  You need not require recipients to copy the
    Corresponding Source along with the object code.  If the place to
    copy the object code is a network server, the Corresponding Source
    may be on a different server (operated by you or a third party)
    that supports equivalent copying facilities, provided you maintain
    clear directions next to the object code saying where to find the
    Corresponding Source.  Regardless of what server hosts the
    Corresponding Source, you remain obligated to ensure that it is
    available for as long as needed to satisfy these requirements.

    e) Convey the object code using peer-to-peer transmission, provided
    you inform other peers where the object code and Corresponding
    Source of the work are being offered to the general public at no
    charge under subsection 6d.

  A separable portion of the object code, whose source code is excluded
from the Corresponding Source as a System Library, need not be
included in conveying the object code work.

  A "User Product" is either (1) a "consumer product", which means any
tangible personal property which is normally used for personal, family,
or household purposes, or (2) anything designed or sold for incorporation
into a dwelling.  In determining whether a product is a consumer product,
doubtful cases shall be resolved in favor of coverage.  For a particular
product received by a particular user, "normally used" refers to a
typical or common use of that class of product, regardless of the status
of the particular user or of the way in which the particular user
actually uses, or expects or is expected to use, the product.  A product
is a consumer product regardless of whether the product has substantial
commercial, industrial or non-consumer uses, unless such uses represent
the only significant mode of use of the product.

  "Installation Information" for a User Product means any methods,
procedures, authorization keys, or other information required to install
and execute modified versions of a covered work in that User Product from
a modified version of its Corresponding Source.  The information must
suffice to ensure that the continued functioning of the modified object
code is in no case prevented or interfered with solely because
modification has been made.

  If you convey an object code work under this section in, or with, or
specifically for use in, a User Product, and the conveying occurs as
part of a transaction in which the right of possession and use of the
User Product is transferred to the recipient in perpetuity or for a
fixed term (regardless of how the transaction is characterized), the
Corresponding Source conveyed under this section must be accompanied
by the Installation Information.  But this requirement does not apply
if neither you nor any third party retains the ability to install
modified object code on the User Product (for example, the work has
been installed in ROM).

  The requirement to provide Installation Information does not include a
requirement to continue to provide support service, warranty, or updates
for a work that has been modified or installed by the recipient, or for
the User Product in which it has been modified or installed.  Access to a
network may be denied when the modification itself materially and
adversely affects the operation of the network or violates the rules and
protocols for communication across the network.

  Corresponding Source conveyed, and Installation Information provided,
in accord with this section must be in a format that is publicly
documented (and with an implementation available to the public in
source code form), and must require no special password or key for
unpacking, reading or copying.

Most of that is legalese, the lettered beginning part is the meat of it.

In fact, since the GPLv3 has a clause for providing the source through the Internet and stuff, you may barely have to do anything at all

xc1024 · 2009-11-11 16:02:32

To summarise: would it be OK from legal viewpoint if I included NVidia drivers as a download and gave a website address in within the DVD box?

ornitorrincos · 2009-11-16 17:53:24

it would be ok even if you included them in the dvd, as fukawi said

xc1024 · 2009-11-21 13:02:46

Thanks to all the people who posted. I appreciate all the advice. This thread was really helpful.

joaca_rj · 2009-11-21 15:57:08

Well, actually somebody stole your idea before you had it....
http://live.linux-gamers.net/
and it's based in Arch Linux.....

Last edited by joaca_rj (2009-11-21 15:58:03)

xc1024 · 2009-11-24 20:41:22

I know. I researched on this topic a bit. My project is a bit different. They have a heavy focus on action games and so on, but I want to throw in some family games as well. OK, to be honest, mostly family games.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-11-10 20:32:00

Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#2 2009-11-10 21:15:06

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#3 2009-11-10 21:32:40

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#4 2009-11-10 22:09:27

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#5 2009-11-10 22:29:57

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#6 2009-11-10 22:53:01

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#7 2009-11-10 23:03:57

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#8 2009-11-10 23:08:13

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#9 2009-11-11 16:02:32

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#10 2009-11-16 17:53:24

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#11 2009-11-21 13:02:46

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#12 2009-11-21 15:57:08

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

#13 2009-11-24 20:41:22

Re: Sell modified Arch LiveDVD with NVidia kernel modules - legal or not?

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