really basic Install help needed, please.

tlcmd · 2010-06-05 21:49:00

Assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, I've searched this whole forum and probably don't know enough to ask the right "search" questions because I haven't found the answers.

Over the past few months, I've been learning Linux as I now plan to switch from Windows to a Linux distro rather than go with a new computer and Windows 7 and the associated problems. I have tried several Linux distros individaully side by side with Windows XP on a partitioned drive.. Most recently I've been using Linux Mint 8 'Helena' and done lots with and to it. Linux Mint 9 'Isadora' was just released, and since upgrading for a non-rolling distro is a nuisance, I thought I'd try a rolling one. After review and recommendations, I thought I'd give Arch Linux a try. Since most of my computer use is music via a Jukebox (14+k files), browsing, email and info seeking, I don't need all the bells and whistles whith which many distros come. I'm not a gamer.

Basic Infor:
PC with 1.4GHz Athlon, 512 Ram, 320 G Hard Drive partitioned equally between Windows XP and Linux (hopefully Arch). High Speed DSL.

What I need are some really really basic instructions on a side by side install of Arch.

SOofar, I've got the clock set, and have partitioned my hard drive into
SDA 1 (my Windows Partition)(160 Gigs
SDA5 1200mb for my swap
SDA6 20 Gigs for the root
SDA7 130 (the rest) Gigs for home

What I need to know is darned near everything else.

Bootability for SDA5-7
How to label (the method for) SDA 5-7
and thereafter a step by step really simple set of install instructions for a side by side installation.
I've searched on this forum as well as via Google, but simple instructions are nowhere to be found. I really have had no trouble installing Mepis, Madriva, Ubuntu, and Linux Mint side by side with my Windows Xp partition and done so for at least 2 of them with manual partitioning rather than the automatic side by side install offered.

With this introduction, can someone point me to a Arch Linux side by side install for Dummies or help me with a walk through??

Or am I in completely over my head and need to just go back to Linux Mint and plan to upgrade every 6-18 months? Or try a different rolling Distro???

Thanks in advance to any and all who can help..
Dick

Thiago H · 2010-06-05 22:01:07

When installing, configuring, customizing etc your Arch Linux distro, the Arch Wiki usualy is a great place for info and walkthroughts. In your case, try this one: Beginners' Guide

Good luck with Arch!

herrvideman · 2010-06-05 22:30:21

You won't be over your head. I thought I would be at first too (I think a lot of people do before installing it) but that Beginner's Guide couldn't make it any easier.

dobbs · 2010-06-05 23:59:24

Beginner's Guide

Excellent resource, I used it a couple of weeks ago to help me install Arch. I'm up and running , everything's fine...:D

tlcmd · 2010-06-06 01:12:21

Y'all,
Thanks for the advice, but I guess i'm just too computer illiterate at this point to dual install Arch Linux alongside Windows XP. This OS seems to be exactly what i want and need so I'm going to try buying and reading the latest edition of Linux For Dummies and try again. I've spend the past several hours trying to understand and utilize that tutorial with no luck. I think my problem is that the tutorial was written with the assumption that this noobie probably had a higher level of knowledge than I had.

May I suggest that a basic installation manual is needed which doesn't offer a plethora of options and explainations. Many of us noobies are trying to escape Windows and its problems and thus are installing alternative operating systems alongside Windows for a trial run. So we need a really really simple dual boot set of installation instructions so we can get on board and become acquainted with Arch Linux.

Thank you for trying to help me with this installation. I'm going to do the side by side Linux Mint 9 'Isadora' to keep me up and running until I can learn how to install Arch linux and give it a trial run.

Dick

Thiago H · 2010-06-06 01:29:51

I can understand that.

Just some notes (my "2 cents"): Althought the guide makes it look complicated and full of options to choose from, only a small part of the provides options apply to your instalation scenario. So, you can "read selectively", skipping the unnecessary parts.

Provinding that you have knowledge of how a hard disk partitioning works, the installation procedure is fairly straightforward:

1) boot the installation media
2) login as root
3) run the "km" command to change your keyboard map, if your keyboard isn't the standard US one
4) invoke the installer with the /arch/setup command
5) carefully read and follow on-screen instructions
6) reboot the system

All the config files you will need to edit are really well commented. To dual-boot, you will usualy only need to de-coment some lines on menu.lst near the end of the installation (the installer will offer to open the file for editting).

However, note that hiding the configuration process is directly against The Arch Way. So, yes, maybe Mint fits you better, if you prefer to have everything automatized.

Ever heard about a Virtual Machine? You can install Arch on one of those, inside your Mint installation, to get some pratice and improve your knowledge. Check the wiki and/or the forums if you get stuck. In Mint, look for the VirtualBox package.

Doesn't matter what you choose to do: have fun!

Regards,
Thiago

Inxsible · 2010-06-06 02:22:45

tlcmd wrote:

Many of us noobies are trying to escape Windows and its problems and thus are installing alternative operating systems alongside Windows for a trial run. So we need a really really simple dual boot set of installation instructions so we can get on board and become acquainted with Arch Linux.
I'm going to do the side by side Linux Mint 9 'Isadora' to keep me up and running until I can learn how to install Arch linux and give it a trial run.
Dick

Arch is not geared towards users which fall into the category that you are. Since this is the first (?) time that you are planning to use/install Linux, an alternative distro might be better suited for your needs. Distros that have a graphical installation are (and this is just a small sampling of a long long list ) : Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu, Debian, Linux Mint (which you are already trying out I guess)

Misfit138 · 2010-06-06 02:50:12

Or, you may want to read this wiki article.

murffatksig · 2010-06-06 04:59:01

Thiago H wrote:

Ever heard about a Virtual Machine? You can install Arch on one of those, inside your Mint installation, to get some pratice and improve your knowledge. Check the wiki and/or the forums if you get stuck. In Mint, look for the VirtualBox package.

This is a phenomenal way to learn Arch. You can learn the Arch basics without making your system unusable.

Finally, the wiki and the forums are an Arch users best friend. They've helped me many times during my Arch experiences.

tlcmd · 2010-06-06 16:24:12

Y'all,
With all due respect, I'm really trying and not trying to be difficult or argumentative.. Arch Linux appears to be the type of Linus distro I think would meet my needs, and I would like to try it. I'll have a shot at the virtual machine. I believe that if I were doing a simple install of Arch onto a computer instead of a dual boot, I could get it done. Unfortunately, some of the suggestions and comments above are not decipherable to me.

Par example: To dual-boot, you will usualy only need to de-coment some lines on menu.lst near the end of the installation (the installer will offer to open the file for editting).
However, note that hiding the configuration process is directly against The Arch Way.

Please pardon the pun, but that just doesn't "compute" for me.

I've got some friends who are "gurus" whom I'll ask for help.

Thank all of you for your patience, I do appreciate it.

Dick

JohnVV · 2010-06-06 18:33:54

just keep in mind that arch was and is not intended as a "first time user" or a " new to Linux" distro

think of it as this
a Freshman decides to skip MATH 101 and instead go strait to MATH 431
?? it can? be done but not all that easily .

schen · 2010-06-06 18:50:54

The menu.lst is the "direct" method of configuring grub. Graphical tools usually just change the things around in the text file for you. Since you already have Linux Mint installed, you can use it's partitions for your dualboot. Your menu.lst should be configured like this:

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Win … _Dual_Boot

toad · 2010-06-06 19:01:54

Thanks for the advice, but I guess i'm just too computer illiterate at this point to dual install Arch Linux alongside Windows XP.

Not really a lot with which we can help you there, you must admit.

Here is what I would do (apart from trying one of the buntus):

1 - defrag your xp
2 - partition your disk with partedmagic or something similar
3 - follow the beginner's guide and take into account the dual boot wiki
4 - ask detailed questions if you don't get on - a different thread for each problem

HTH

tlcmd · 2010-06-06 19:53:29

All y'all,
Thanks for the replies. I have temporarily put Arch Linux aside until I can become more educated and literate, and installed Linux Mint 9 'Isadora' as a dual boot with my Windows XP. Have spoken with my "guru" who is going to read, interpret, and assist me with at least a virtual machine Arch install later this month or next.

While your suggestion regarding "ask detailed questions if you don't get on - a different thread for each problem" is appreciated, it may not be appropriate. This forum would get sick and tired of the volume of inane questions I'd end up posting at my current level of knowledge. BTW, prior to trying to install Arch, i did backup, cleanup, defrag, etc my Windows XP partition and used a partition manager to repartition and clean up my potential Arch Linux partition.

In the event that i ever get Arch Linux dual installed with Windows XP, I think I should be able to and shall write an article for this forum from the really basic beginner's viewpoint on how to do it in simple steps. I shall be omitting the detailed explainations and multiple options. As a retired physician, I learned to talk to most folks as if they were in the 6th grade. I insulted very few, but almost everyone understood me. This was after one of my early patients disolved the fluid pills I gave her in a pan of water and soaked her feet in it.

My point being that the Arch Linux Homepage introduces Arch Linux as:
"A simple, lightweight distribution"
"You've reached the website for Arch Linux, a lightweight and flexible Linux® distribution that tries to Keep It Simple."

The Wiki and installation instructions appear belie that intro.

I'll be back to haunt y'all when i get Arch installed as a dual boot.

Again, thanks for the assistance, comments, and suggestions,
Dick

schen · 2010-06-06 19:56:50

If you want to learn a lot about Linux, try getting accustomed to the command-line: Specifically, use text editors, text web browsers, and just try to do everything from the commandline. It helps a lot when trying to install Arch Linux.

Barrucadu · 2010-06-06 19:57:21

'Simple' is defined (here) from a technical standpoint, meaning without unnecessary complication or modification.

Skripka · 2010-06-06 20:00:51

tlcmd wrote:

My point being that the Arch Linux Homepage introduces Arch Linux as:
"A simple, lightweight distribution"
"You've reached the website for Arch Linux, a lightweight and flexible Linux® distribution that tries to Keep It Simple."
The Wiki and installation instructions appear belie that intro.

You are using "Simple" in a different sense than Archers mean it. When Arch and Arch users say "Simple" they mean this:

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The … Simplicity

Not "simple" as in starting a modern car, where all you need to do is turn a key in the ignition.

ngoonee · 2010-06-06 20:02:38

tlcmd wrote:

Par example: To dual-boot, you will usualy only need to de-coment some lines on menu.lst near the end of the installation (the installer will offer to open the file for editting).
However, note that hiding the configuration process is directly against The Arch Way.
Please pardon the pun, but that just doesn't "compute" for me.

I'd normally encourage experimentation with the aim of learning, but this just scares me. Almost all Arch documentation (and Arch help from Arch users) assumes a basic familiarity with some more geeky stuff, for example the line you copy-pasted.

There's no shame in not knowing how to install/use Arch, hence you really should get your feet wet with some of the alternatives listed earlier (I'm partial to Linux Mint myself). You're almost certainly getting in way too deep with Arch if your comments in this thread are a fair indication of your level of geekiness.

tlcmd · 2010-06-06 21:29:48

Again,
Thanks for your comments. I am trying to get Linux literate as Windows becomes more and more complex and vulnerable to problems. The Arch definition of "simplicity" is a case and point in my misunderstanding of Arch. Fortunately, I've some computer and Linux literate friends as well as the availability of off and on-line resources including you good and knowledgeable and patient folks. Also, with good backup, I can only screw up stuff so much before wiping my hard disk and re-installing. And "geekiness' can be learned. I think I'm reasonably intelligent.

Using the car analogy as discussed above, an intelligent purchaser will review, study, and educate himself before "turning the key in the ignition." That's what I'm trying to do with the various Linux distros. And I do plan to make more than a few "misteaks." After all, I'm not trying to test out how well I can learn how to pack a parachute so Linux Arch experimentation with the aim of learning shouldn't be scary. I get more than one shot at it.

And, thanks to all y'all, I have become more aware of my lack of knowledge re: Linux. After all, if ya don't play the game, you can't hope to score.

I'll keep you posted. I just don't believe you have to be a geek to learn this stuff. One man's magic is another man's technology.

Thank you all again for your comments, suggestions, and patience.

Dick

Willie Green · 2010-06-06 23:00:26

tlcmd wrote:

Again,
Thanks for your comments. I am trying to get Linux literate as Windows becomes more and more complex and vulnerable to problems. The Arch definition of "simplicity" is a case and point in my misunderstanding of Arch. Fortunately, I've some computer and Linux literate friends as well as the availability of off and on-line resources including you good and knowledgeable and patient folks. Also, with good backup, I can only screw up stuff so much before wiping my hard disk and re-installing. And "geekiness' can be learned. I think I'm reasonably intelligent.

Why wait for a screw-up to wipe your hard disk???

A good way to pursue "simplicity" would be to intentionally get rid of Win XP altogether!
(after backing up all your data files to some other media, of course.)

Quit worrying about dual boot and devote you're entire drive to Linux.
And since your needs are simple, avoid installing KDE, Gnome or Xfce Desktops and install a "simple" Fluxbox desktop. Fluxbox is very lightweight on system resources and is easy to use. It would be a good environment for you to work in while you learn more about how to tinker 'under the hood'.

If you're shy about installing Fluxbox on Arch right off the bat, Linux Mint 8 has a Fluxbox community edition that is very nice and highly polished that you could try.

tlcmd · 2010-06-06 23:58:40

Willie,
Were I certain I would be happy with Arch, there would be no problem doing as you suggest. However, looking backover at least 2 decades, our first computer was an IBM with an 8086 chip and 20 whole MB of hard drive. The choice of operating systems was DOS. As we moved onwards and upwards, Windows 95, 98, and XP were Hobson's choice for PC users (our office computer used Unix). Now with more experience and research, a new world of operating systems is available, especially for those of us with older computers which would require major (and expensive) upgrades when possible to move to Windows 7. And as with Windows ME, 2000, and Vista, there is probably potential for significant problems with 7. Utilizing my current ability to have 2 (or more) OS's on my computer affords the opportunity to learn more about them and develop my 'geekiness" as well as to evaluate and selectively choose one which will best meet my needs.

As of now, I have at least 3 problems with abandoing Windows XP completely:
1) I haven't found a Jukebox program for Linux equivalent to J Rivers' Media Jukebox which has seamless track switching, an equalizer, and DSP studio effects,etc. I've used WINE doors and made it run on Linux Mint, but the program will not recognize my CD-ROM drives. I have some 14+k music files and my computer jukebox runs through my home sound system.
2) I've some 600+ movies indexed on Movie Organizer (movieorganizer.org) which flat out won't run on the Linux distro's I've tried. Re-entering those 600+ indexed movies to another program will be a bear. So far, no one of my local sources or on the other various Linux forums has a solution. WINE doors won't do it as it needs MDAC.
3) For all its frailties and faults, I'm reasonably literate with Windows XP. Linux OS's are still, quite obviously, relatively unfamiliar to me (3 mos experience).. So until I'm much more conversant with Linux, better the devil I know.

I have installed and used both the Linux Mint 8 Fluxbox and KDE editions on more than one computer so it's not a question of my being shy. BTW, I'm a retired internist, and our speciality is known for being really nitpicky, detail oriented, and investigational, and I'm sure it shows.
Again, thanks to all for the suggestions and comments. I'll keep in touch.

Dick

fsckd · 2010-06-07 00:22:16

Hi Dick,

our speciality is known for being really nitpicky, detail oriented, and investigational

That's all you need. I hope you've found the manpages to your liking

Willie Green · 2010-06-07 01:13:18

tlcmd wrote:

Were I certain I would be happy with Arch, there would be no problem doing as you suggest. However, looking backover at least 2 decades, our first computer was an IBM with an 8086 chip and 20 whole MB of hard drive. The choice of operating systems was DOS. As we moved onwards and upwards, Windows 95, 98, and XP were Hobson's choice for PC users (our office computer used Unix). Now with more experience and research, a new world of operating systems is available, especially for those of us with older computers which would require major (and expensive) upgrades when possible to move to Windows 7. And as with Windows ME, 2000, and Vista, there is probably potential for significant problems with 7. Utilizing my current ability to have 2 (or more) OS's on my computer affords the opportunity to learn more about them and develop my 'geekiness" as well as to evaluate and selectively choose one which will best meet my needs.

Well welcome to Linux, Dick!!!
I'm a bit of an old-timer myself, starting out with a Tandy 1000TX (80286 + DOS 3.2) back in the good old days.

I faced the Hobson's choice linux about 2½ years ago because M/S stopped Win 98 support for my elderly computer (233 MHz Pentium).
And the only reason that I "upgraded" my hardware to a cheap ($40) 800 MHz Pentium III with 512 RAM and a 15 Mb HD... was because the older Pentium didn't have enough oomph to display YouTube.

Anyway, I would suggest using Music Player Daemon for you music files: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Player_Daemon
Then you can choose from a fairly wide selection of MPD clients what best suits your needs.

Sorry I can't be more helpful with your movie database, but I am unfamiliar with that kind of software.

Arch Linux

#1 2010-06-05 21:49:00

really basic Install help needed, please.

#2 2010-06-05 22:01:07

Re: really basic Install help needed, please.

#3 2010-06-05 22:30:21

Re: really basic Install help needed, please.

#4 2010-06-05 23:59:24

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#5 2010-06-06 01:12:21

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#6 2010-06-06 01:29:51

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#7 2010-06-06 02:22:45

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#8 2010-06-06 02:50:12

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#9 2010-06-06 04:59:01

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#10 2010-06-06 16:24:12

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#11 2010-06-06 18:33:54

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#12 2010-06-06 18:50:54

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#13 2010-06-06 19:01:54

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#14 2010-06-06 19:53:29

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#15 2010-06-06 19:56:50

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#16 2010-06-06 19:57:21

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#17 2010-06-06 20:00:51

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#18 2010-06-06 20:02:38

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#19 2010-06-06 21:29:48

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#20 2010-06-06 23:00:26

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#21 2010-06-06 23:58:40

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#22 2010-06-07 00:22:16

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#23 2010-06-07 01:13:18

Re: really basic Install help needed, please.

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