subtle - another tiling window manager

litemotiv · 2009-09-07 10:35:42

oh yes, another request would be to have a way to modify the global gravities weights at runtime (this was the reason i switched from dwm to ion3 earlier).

for instance:

+------------A-------+
|            |   2   |
|     1      +-------B
|            |   3   |
+------------+-------+

W-C-S-Left = Move gravity line A left (and auto-rearrange windows)
W-C-S-Down = Move gravity line B down

no idea if this is possible..

Last edited by litemotiv (2009-09-07 10:38:39)

unexist · 2009-09-07 10:59:44

litemotiv wrote:

- since most laptops don't have a numpad, would it be an idea to allow setting gravity the same way as window-focus, but with a modifier? for instance:
W-Left = Focus left
W-S-Left = Move gravity left ( 3 > 2 > 1 )
W-S-Down = Move gravity down ( 1 > 4 > 7 )
(counting gravities from topLeft to bottomRight in the above example, topLeft = 1, which seems more logical)

Well you could easily do it wiith a lambda grab, if I understand you right you want to switch the gravities in the given order, right? So it would be like this:

"W-S-Left" => lambda { |c| 
  c.gravity = case c.gravity
    when 3: 2
    when 2: 1
    when 1: 3
  end
}

litemotiv wrote:

- i use feh to set a background image, i can see it through my semi-transparant urxvt but empty views show the opaque background color set in subtle.rb. is there a way to have subtle not paste it's background color on empty views?

No, but what about setting the background image just after subtle started (in your ~/.xinitrc)?

subtle &
PID=$!

display -window root fancy_wallpaper.png

wait $PID

litemotiv wrote:

oh yes, another request would be to have a way to modify the global gravities weights at runtime (this was the reason i switched from dwm to ion3 earlier).

Auto-rearranging is something not supposed to be in subtle - of course you can write scripts that do exactly this layout enforcement or you specifiy the tags and the windows will be automatically placed in the places in your example. Actually I am not sure what W-C-S-Left and W-C-S-Down really do in your example.

And thanks!

litemotiv · 2009-09-07 11:16:24

unexist wrote:

Well you could easily do it wiith a lambda grab, if I understand you right you want to switch the gravities in the given order, right? So it would be like this:
[ ... ]

great, i'll try that out

unexist wrote:

No, but what about setting the background image just after subtle started (in your ~/.xinitrc)?
[ ... ]

same for this

unexist wrote:

Auto-rearranging is something not supposed to be in subtle - of course you can write scripts that do exactly this layout enforcement or you specifiy the tags and the windows will be automatically placed in the places in your example. Actually I am not sure what W-C-S-Left and W-C-S-Down really do in your example.

oh i think you (partly) misunderstood, my primary intention was a way to set the 'center of gravity'. so instead of a 50/50 layout with gravities 4 and 6, another center like 75/25. the keys i used above would be to move the center left/right and up/down.

thanks for your feedback so far!

Last edited by litemotiv (2009-09-07 11:17:07)

unexist · 2009-09-07 11:46:06

litemotiv wrote:

oh i think you (partly) misunderstood, my primary intention was a way to set the 'center of gravity'. so instead of a 50/50 layout with gravities 4 and 6, another center like 75/25. the keys i used above would be to move the center left/right and up/down.

Ah, my bad. Well, currently I am working on sur - a user repository for sublets - after that I will update the layout manager to give more flexibility about these ratios. I am not sure how I will change it but many people are asking about this and I am always listen to the community. I will let you know when it's done, plan is to start with this today.

litemotiv wrote:

thanks for your feedback so far!

Feel free to join our channel to stay informed or to ask other guys when I am not around.

litemotiv · 2009-09-09 07:14:40

i condensed the gravity functions to this, which seems to work really well for me:

"W-S-Left" => lambda { |c| 
    c.gravity = c.gravity - 1
  },

  "W-S-Right" => lambda { |c| 
    c.gravity = c.gravity + 1
  },

  "W-S-Up" => lambda { |c| 
    c.gravity = c.gravity + 3
  },

  "W-S-Down" => lambda { |c| 
    c.gravity = c.gravity - 3
  },

two small other questions:

- would it be possible to split the focus window title and view into two color codes?

- would it be possible to annotate views to show if they have windows? i regularly shutdown my computer when there's still an active window open somewhere, causing me to lose some unfinished text or emails.. maybe a superscript number indicating the open windows would be nice, but i don't know if that's possible(?)

thanks again!

(p.s., i'll check out the channel too when i have some more time available)

litemotiv · 2009-09-09 08:42:26

perhaps it would also be useful to indicate the level of a window before it's title, so you know how many windows are below it?

something like:

[1/3] Vim

window 1 of 3, where 1 is the topmost window.

(maybe a different indication would also work or be better, this is just a first suggestion )

litemotiv · 2009-09-09 13:53:08

oh and last one (srsly ), can you tell me how to enable xinerama? after i set my 2nd monitor with xrandr and reload subtle, the new screen is shown properly (i can move the mouse there) but can't drag or open windows on it. is there something else i need to do?

unexist · 2009-09-13 21:02:30

litemotiv wrote:

oh and last one (srsly ), can you tell me how to enable xinerama? after i set my 2nd monitor with xrandr and reload subtle, the new screen is shown properly (i can move the mouse there) but can't drag or open windows on it. is there something else i need to do?

Well, this is the only thing you haven't asked in IRC, so I answering here: Starting clients on different screens can be done with tags:

"screen" => { :regex => "client", :screen => 1 }

(Counting screens starts at zero)

You can also use the :WindowScreen grabs or subtlext:

"W-S-1" => lambda { |c| c.screen = 1 }

unexist · 2009-09-19 22:16:21

Most of the annoying things about ruby 1.9.1 have been cleared in the current subtle-hg snapshot, also the focus problems are gone and some other things - just check it out.

unexist · 2009-11-05 12:33:45

It's a while ago since I last posted here but I never stopped development. The current release uploaded yesterday included a customizable gravity system. Users can now freely configure every gravity via config on pulic demand, of course. Also the default config should be more understandable now, I added lots of comments and rdoc can also generate a nice doc from it.

http://unexist.scrapping.cc/news/12

milomouse · 2010-01-28 16:46:14

Sorry to revive this but I generally don't use irc to communicate. So, I tried my hand at Subtle again like you suggested and it looks alot better than I remember, also everything opens smooth and there's no glitches of any kind like I have in some window-managers. I always associate this with clean Ruby programming. I really like how anything can be true full-screen too.

1 ] Though, I have to say I removed all the bindings to the mouse and was wondering if I could remove "focus follows mouse pointer"? I generally banish the mouse to the far corner anyway but sometimes I "unbanish" it to edit pictures and such and I'd like the focus to remain on my selected window when I move the mouse outside of it.

2 ] Since I just tried this again I remember something I wasn't sure about last time I used it. I've always wondered about the "splitting" of the windows. I guess it's not really splitting so much as overlapping and if overlapping then resizing by pre-set variables to accomodate their geometry where they won't overlap. Is this what grid means?

3 ] Is there a way to resize windows without using those predetermined sizes (left, left66, left33, top_left, top_left66, etc)? A way to resize by increments of X? Again, maybe this isn't what you're window-manager is set out to do (I'm used to strictly tiling window-managers) because with yours I know you can do this with the mouse but it automatically "floats" when I attempt this. Anyway to do this kind of resizing via the mouse (hooks, maybe)?

I haven't been at this long but will continue to see what I can alter to my liking. I may have overlooked something simple, who knows, it's been a while.

Last edited by milomouse (2010-01-28 16:50:16)

unexist · 2010-01-28 18:41:34

milomouse wrote:

Sorry to revive this but I generally don't use irc to communicate. So, I tried my hand at Subtle again like you suggested and it looks alot better than I remember, also everything opens smooth and there's no glitches of any kind like I have in some window-managers. I always associate this with clean Ruby programming. I really like how anything can be true full-screen too.

Well no problem, IRC is just a bit faster than a forum and there are other people around too. Generally subtle is written in C, only config and scripting is in Ruby just to make this clear. People often think subtle is Ruby only, but thanks.

milomouse wrote:

1 ] Though, I have to say I removed all the bindings to the mouse and was wondering if I could remove "focus follows mouse pointer"? I generally banish the mouse to the far corner anyway but sometimes I "unbanish" it to edit pictures and such and I'd like the focus to remain on my selected window when I move the mouse outside of it.

Every grab that is associated with the mouse can also be used via keys. The :step option in the config determines the movement and increase steps when used via keys. The focus follows mouse thing is actually something apps expect, I haven't tried to hack this but I will write it on my todo list.

milomouse wrote:

2 ] Since I just tried this again I remember something I wasn't sure about last time I used it. I've always wondered about the "splitting" of the windows. I guess it's not really splitting so much as overlapping and if overlapping then resizing by pre-set variables to accomodate their geometry where they won't overlap. Is this what grid means?

Overlapping is something that is wanted, there are grabs like :WindowLower to manipulate the ordering of the windows. The grid means that there are fixed positions windows can be and grid positions have more than one size and can be toggled.

In comparison to the early stage you tested subtle these grid positions can now be freely modified and glued together. I think the config explains this well.

milomouse wrote:

3 ] Is there a way to resize windows without using those predetermined sizes (left, left66, left33, top_left, top_left66, etc)? A way to resize by increments of X? Again, maybe this isn't what you're window-manager is set out to do (I'm used to strictly tiling window-managers) because with yours I know you can do this with the mouse but it automatically "floats" when I attempt this. Anyway to do this kind of resizing via the mouse (hooks, maybe)?

There are several ways, you either can use tags to set a fixed size of a window. This size will also set when you apply this tag per runtime to a window like:

Config:
TAGS = { "tag" => { :geometry => [ 0, 0, 400, 400 ] } }

subtler:
subtler -c client -T tag

Or you can use ruby to do that:

ruby -r"subtle/subtlext" -e "Subtlext::Client["client"].geometry = [ 0, 0, 400, 400 ]"

Or write your own script with one the above, also you can use keys as I said in the answer of your first question.

milomouse wrote:

I haven't been at this long but will continue to see what I can alter to my liking. I may have overlooked something simple, who knows, it's been a while.

Sure, no problem. subtle has also changed during that time a lot.

unexist · 2010-04-24 15:40:51

I updated the description on the first post to reflect the current subtle a bit more.

arinlares · 2010-06-26 10:19:33

I've been using this for a day, want to say thanks for such a great WM, and also ask a question (can't log in to subforge, just registered, and my password seems to be invalid, and IRC was slow):

This screenshot is one of my main pushes for using Subtle. I've been playing in the config (subtle.rb), with the latest build (I think it's 2006), and can't seem to find anything for titlebars for windows like in the screenshot in the config file, or the documentation. Is there a way to access this feature in the config, or was it written out?

Last edited by arinlares (2010-06-26 10:23:53)

unexist · 2010-06-26 11:04:13

arinlares wrote:

I've been using this for a day, want to say thanks for such a great WM, and also ask a question (can't log in to subforge, just registered, and my password seems to be invalid, and IRC was slow):

Hello, thank you.

I just activated your account on subforge and always wanted to respond to your questions in #subtle, but usually you don't stay long there and your nick isn't registered. (or I would use e.g. memoserv)

arinlares wrote:

This screenshot is one of my main pushes for using Subtle. I've been playing in the config (subtle.rb), with the latest build (I think it's 2006), and can't seem to find anything for titlebars for windows like in the screenshot in the config file, or the documentation. Is there a way to access this feature in the config, or was it written out?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I started subtle in september 2005 and played a lot with many layouts in those years. This shot is a really old one (current version is 0.9) and shows an older layout experiment, it proved to be funny but not useable in daily work. As you can see in the following shots of 0.7 and 0.8 I removed this layout stuff in favor for the current.

The whole development is also the explanation why I personally don't like automatic tiling. The gravity system really suits well into my 'workflow'.

To archive something similar as the shots there is an example of a hook: Gravity tiling

This basically tiles windows vertically that share the same gravity, you can freely move windows with gravities and if there is more than one window they are tiled. Titlebars are removed in favor of screenspace.

In advance, if you have any questions just post here, on subforge or be more patient when asking in #subtle. Our timezones probably don't suit well.

arinlares · 2010-06-26 21:30:54

Thanks for answering! I'll be sure to hang around in IRC longer next time.

So, that snippet you linked to seems to do exactly what I'm after. I'll play around with it.

unexist · 2010-06-28 19:07:15

arinlares wrote:

Thanks for answering! I'll be sure to hang around in IRC longer next time.
So, that snippet you linked to seems to do exactly what I'm after. I'll play around with it.

Np, thanks for trying.

Jimi · 2011-01-12 02:24:29

I tried subtle today and I have to say that I really enjoyed and I would use it over DWM if I could get Japanese to work in the panel.

unexist · 2011-01-12 11:08:13

Jimi wrote:

I tried subtle today and I have to say that I really enjoyed and I would use it over DWM if I could get Japanese to work in the panel.

Hey, I saw your question in #subtle, but due our dfferent timzones a bit too late to respond immediately. Widechars are a problem currently, dwn uses a funny trick to avoid the use of iconv to convert the different character sets and I am not sure if I want to adapt that. I added a ticket for this: http://subforge.org/issues/174

unexist · 2011-01-13 20:53:43

I fixed the issue, utf8 view names work now in current devel version, but not all fonts support all chars.

unexist · 2011-01-22 11:39:28

I released another stable version of subtle (0.9.2573-lambda) which is also available via the subtle community packages.

irtigor · 2011-01-22 16:58:35

There is a easy way to implement GridSelect(xmonad)/Expo(compiz) or Greader(g+u)? Something to show all opened windows and jump to a selected one with h/j/k/l+enter.

unexist · 2011-01-23 18:03:55

irtigor wrote:

There is a easy way to implement GridSelect(xmonad)/Expo(compiz) or Greader(g+u)? Something to show all opened windows and jump to a selected one with h/j/k/l+enter.

I just added selector to subtle-contrib, which works similar to the subscription dialog in Google Reader. This needs the latest devel version. (subtle >= 0.9.2576)

Last edited by unexist (2011-01-23 19:16:43)

Jimi · 2011-01-24 00:23:49

Xft isn't working in the community package (works fine with subtle-hg). I can get unicode to work on a few fonts, but none that I find usable.

I currently use the pango patch for DWM, and it solves all of my problems. What it does that literally all others fail to do, is when the font is missing a character, it defaults to another font that contains that character. That way I can use my favorite font, but when it hits a Japanese character, it'll display it correctly. Literally nothing else does this, and it makes amazing WMs/bars unusable to anybody who cares about fonts and reading multiple languages.

Keep up the good work! The progress on this project is awesome!

Last edited by Jimi (2011-01-24 01:49:07)

unexist · 2011-01-24 12:42:07

Jimi wrote:

Xft isn't working in the community package (works fine with subtle-hg). I can get unicode to work on a few fonts, but none that I find usable.

Hm, did you check the current stable in community? There is no change regarding that in the current devel.

Jimi wrote:

I currently use the pango patch for DWM, and it solves all of my problems. What it does that literally all others fail to do, is when the font is missing a character, it defaults to another font that contains that character. That way I can use my favorite font, but when it hits a Japanese character, it'll display it correctly. Literally nothing else does this, and it makes amazing WMs/bars unusable to anybody who cares about fonts and reading multiple languages.

I just had a look about that patch, it's faily easy to add tho, but adding pango just for that instead of using a proper font.. I need to think about it, pango needs lots of other stuff, maybe I will make it optional. During my tests I checked unicode characters with the fonts from the wqy-bitmapfont package.

Jimi wrote:

Keep up the good work! The progress on this project is awesome!

Thanks, I will.

Arch Linux

#76 2009-09-07 10:35:42

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#77 2009-09-07 10:59:44

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#78 2009-09-07 11:16:24

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#79 2009-09-07 11:46:06

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#80 2009-09-09 07:14:40

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#81 2009-09-09 08:42:26

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#82 2009-09-09 13:53:08

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#83 2009-09-13 21:02:30

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#84 2009-09-19 22:16:21

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#85 2009-11-05 12:33:45

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#86 2010-01-28 16:46:14

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#87 2010-01-28 18:41:34

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#88 2010-04-24 15:40:51

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#89 2010-06-26 10:19:33

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#90 2010-06-26 11:04:13

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#91 2010-06-26 21:30:54

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#92 2010-06-28 19:07:15

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#93 2011-01-12 02:24:29

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#94 2011-01-12 11:08:13

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#95 2011-01-13 20:53:43

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#96 2011-01-22 11:39:28

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#97 2011-01-22 16:58:35

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#98 2011-01-23 18:03:55

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#99 2011-01-24 00:23:49

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

#100 2011-01-24 12:42:07

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

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