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#26 2005-06-16 06:32:47

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,622
Website

Re: Daniel Robbins accepts new position with Microsoft

sarah31 wrote:

Robbins has made more than his fair share of contributions to FOSS and I won't overlook that. If other want to condemn him for doing what he felt he needed to do then then by all means they can but it is immature.

Dont put words in my mouth please. I never decried his accomplishments or his contributions. I also dont appreciate being called immature just because I don't blanket agree with someone else's opinion.

Robbins going to MS hurts no one because there are always people to replace him. He never legally harmed anyone so I have no reasons to be angry with him. Hating someone just because they chose a different route from your idealistic mumbo jumbo is petty.

Again, why are you assigning hate to me? You really like straw man arguments dont you?
<sarcasm>
Look. Sarah likes polar bears. Polar bears eat seals. Polar bears eat baby seals. Sarah likes killing baby seals. Hooray! Wasn't that fun?
</sarcasm>
Rediculous..

Like i say this is a non issue it put no lives at risk and no one has been legally damaged from it.

yup. Just like nobody is legally damaged by my opinion.

BUT if you wanna grumble and moan about how much of a devil he by all means go ahead. It doesn't make him look bad ... if you catch my drift.

Again. I see little "grumbling and moaning" in my opinions posted, nor do I ever recall demonizing him. I do like how you make up things and assign it to me though. Good work.

Wow. I get to quote myself..

I think the real travesty occurs when people make the arguments personal, then it ceases to be a debate, and becomes a ad hominem attack. I also think that *very few* people can honestly engage in debate in a civil manner. Most people, when they "feel" they are losing, or when they no longer have a defensible position to their ideas, turn extremely nasty, and the debate is no longer a debate.


ps. Forum moderators? Maybe this thread should be locked. I dont see further discussion as being productive. Maybe let people kick the cactus around for a bit, so they wont whine about not being able to have the last word, and then lock it.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#27 2005-06-16 06:48:25

keevn7
Member
From: Lancaster, OH, US
Registered: 2005-06-09
Posts: 206
Website

Re: Daniel Robbins accepts new position with Microsoft

cactus wrote:

A very reasoned argument. I am surprised you didn't call people "unpatriotic" and other such things. I always like it when people, for no reason other than rudeness, decides to finish a conversation with an --omg-stfu cflag. Like anyone's opinion but yours is invalid. roll
cheers.

That was a troll, not an argument. Calm down, this is only the Internet. Kthxbye.

P.S.: You are unpatriotic.

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#28 2005-06-16 06:57:56

sarah31
Member
From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
Website

Re: Daniel Robbins accepts new position with Microsoft

cactus wrote:

I didn't. Beneficial to MS..potentially. Beneficial to Daniel, most likely..beneficial to windows users, most likely...beneficial to FOSS (Free/Open Source Software)...unlikely.

Back door to saying that he made his decision based on greed. But since you went in the back door no one really noticed.

I dont know about you, but I have read nothing about him thinking this will be "beneficial to computing". I have read "helping MS understand open source better". Likely he was entice by $$ too. Nothing about some far reaching, "doing it for computer users everywhere" though, as a blanket term like "computing" generalizes to in my mind.

Again basically saying his reasons for departure are nothing but a cover and he did what he did becaus he is greedy.

Freedom does not mean freedom from criticism.

true but since you are not him and no nothing of his contract with MS you have no means of criticising his comments. Could he be greedy? Sure. Could he have said what he said to cover his ass? Sure. But I have zero evidence to question him. He has been a good FOSS person and has contributed alot to it unlike alot of people in the community

To an extent. If "your business" invovles hurting people I care about, your damn right I will start to care.
I generally see no harm in debate. I think the real travesty occurs when people make the arguments personal, then it ceases to be a debate, and becomes a ad hominem attack. I also think that *very few* people can honestly engage in debate in a civil manner. Most people, when they "feel" they are losing, or when they no longer have a defensible position to their ideas, turn extremely nasty, and the debate is no longer a debate.

So you think that I personally attacked someone? That I did so because my position was wrong or indefensible? Well just who did I personally attack. I made comments backed them up and so I fail to see your point.

Dont put words in my mouth please. I never decried his accomplishments or his contributions. I also dont appreciate being called immature just because I don't blanket agree with someone else's opinion.

You never DIRECTLY said so but you certainly paint him with that brush with your comments I have quoted above. In fact no one, even you, bothered to mention his contributions instead you focus in on what you feel is important ... that his comments are a cover and his decision was "probably" based on a fat paycheck. Funny I haven't heard what he is getting paid so how do we know that he is even making a substantial amount of money or is making money THE issue?

Again, why are you assigning hate to me? You really like straw man arguments dont you?

Okay hate may have been a bit harsh but dislike is evident from your comments.

oh and there is that gutless rambling quote again. Wow twice in one thread you say I am personally attacking because I am losing an argument or have an indefensible position. So which is it I Only named you name and that is only because you made it clear that only your postion is defensible and right by your own logic.

bah what a steaming pile of you-know-what.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#29 2005-06-16 09:19:38

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,622
Website

Re: Daniel Robbins accepts new position with Microsoft

sarah31 wrote:
cactus wrote:

I didn't. Beneficial to MS..potentially. Beneficial to Daniel, most likely..beneficial to windows users, most likely...beneficial to FOSS (Free/Open Source Software)...unlikely.

Back door to saying that he made his decision based on greed. But since you went in the back door no one really noticed.

Back door? I dont see that. Saying, "beneficial to him, likely"...how does that imply greed? You are really reaching.

I dont know about you, but I have read nothing about him thinking this will be "beneficial to computing". I have read "helping MS understand open source better". Likely he was enticed by $$ too. Nothing about some far reaching, "doing it for computer users everywhere" though, as a blanket term like "computing" generalizes to in my mind.

Again basically saying his reasons for departure are nothing but a cover and he did what he did becaus he is greedy.

So you dont think MS is paying him? Being enticed by $$ is not the same as being greedy. If a person needed a job, and someone offered them a job..would you say they were being greedy because they were enticed to take the position because they would be paid? I suppose greed could play a part, but if I had meant greed, then I would have said greed.

true but since you are not him and no nothing of his contract with MS you have no means of criticising his comments. Could he be greedy? Sure. Could he have said what he said to cover his ass? Sure. But I have zero evidence to question him.
He has been a good FOSS person and has contributed alot to it unlike alot of people in the community

And, I did not claim otherwise. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. Is that the only way you can discuss something? By trying to draw out radical inferrances by reading into my statements so far, that it ceases to be a statement I made? Eisegetical interpretation does not make for a reasonable discussion.

So you think that I personally attacked someone? That I did so because my position was wrong or indefensible? Well just who did I personally attack. I made comments backed them up and so I fail to see your point.

Again..did I say you personally attacked someone? Almost every argument you have made is taking my statement, and running down the road and around the corner with it. Not what I would consider reasonable exchange in an intellectual discussion. Where is the persuasive argument? Where is the logical formulation of a concept, and the presentation of it?

All I see you doing, is picking apart a few of my statements, and then reading into them things that I never said.

You never DIRECTLY said so but you certainly paint him with that brush with your comments I have quoted above. In fact no one, even you, bothered to mention his contributions instead you focus in on what you feel is important ... that his comments are a cover and his decision was "probably" based on a fat paycheck. Funny I haven't heard what he is getting paid so how do we know that he is even making a substantial amount of money or is making money THE issue?

Again, $$ was never a central issue in my statements. I said that it likely benefitted him. I never said, "he is doing it all for the $$".

As for "painting with a brush of comments"..pfftt..
You can "see" a frog in a rainbow, but that doesnt mean it is there.

Okay hate may have been a bit harsh but dislike is evident from your comments.

I already stated my dissappointment for his going to work for MS. If by dislike, you mean that..then sure. Other than that...I really have little opinion of him personally. I have never met him. He has done some really cool things, and many people like gentoo. I dont seem how you can even infer a good deal of dislike, other than my aforementioned disappointment, which I made very clear early on.

I believe *not* stating a personal opinion is far more leading than trying to appear completely unbaised. Most people have some type of bias. At least I am honest about mine, and open to new information and ideas.

oh and there is that gutless rambling quote again.

Gutless rambling. hmm. Not a personal attack?

Wow twice in one thread you say I am personally attacking because I am losing an argument or have an indefensible position. So which is it I Only named you name and that is only because you made it clear that only your postion is defensible and right by your own logic.

Maybe if I could understant that, I could respond.

bah what a steaming pile of you-know-what.

Another baseless insult.

You know sarah. I think I have no further need to converse with you anymore. I am tired of your sidehanded mud slinging. Maybe you do it for fun. I have no idea.

Kindly, consider our conversations in the general forum at an end. I am sure you will respond, and I will read it, out of courtesy. If you wish to continue discussion further, please do so in PM.

You have a right to speak, and I have a right to no longer listen to you.
Good day.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#30 2005-06-16 09:43:45

dtw
Forum Fellow
From: UK
Registered: 2004-08-03
Posts: 4,439
Website

Re: Daniel Robbins accepts new position with Microsoft

Yup, i'm definitely locking this, it's just getting too personal.

I'd love to have my say but can't.

Oh, and keevn7, i liked your gaim themes but that post, which you readily admit is a troll, is going straight in the troll bin.  it's totally unecessary and not welcome on these boards.  I, personally, will not tolerate any "this arguement is stupid so you should all shut up" rubbish.

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