Bleeding Edge

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-19 17:40:49

AIF didn't work for me, so Installed Arch manually from the latest CD.

Woks fine except for one little problem: dhcpcd doesn't work.

This is very strange. I have 3 live CDs here, and dhcpcd works just
fine on them with no input from me at all.

Same for my old debian. And it rarely comes up on gereral linux
forums. It is obviously a very simple and dependable utility.

So I go through the Begginners and Official Install docs and
the install from an existing linux doc and then post on the
networking forum.

Because the Network doc is out-of-date! One of the most
important docs in the wiki is USELESS..

I think it would be a very good idea if Arch would take
care of the foundations of Linux before worrying about
being "bleeding edge".

What good is the latest eye-candy if you can't connect
to the Internet?

Bruce

Inxsible · 2011-07-19 17:51:12

so your gripe is about a wiki page not being updated then?

If so, the wiki is a collaborative effort. If you find mistakes and/or outdated information, you can create an account and rectify those entries, you know.

Awebb · 2011-07-19 19:43:06

Arch does not take care of anything. Arch is not an entity that is entitled to do something on it's own. If that was the case, Arch would be sentient enough to be a citizen and most likely decide to turn it's back on most of us. While I sometimes find that my Arch box has a will of it's own, I'd really find the idea spooky that it might be part of some sort of hive mind of Arch boxes.

If you have a look at the discussion page, you will find that the article is in good hands. It has been flagged out of date for a while and there is a note about dhcpcd ←→ dhclient in the article itself. They also recognized the fact, that dropping the net-tools package has an impact on the article. I haven't had a look at the changes yet, I'm still a happy user of wicd, but I certainly would not hesitate to edit that article with my own hands (close your eyes for a moment and try to imagine).

Oh and by the way: Those lines wrap automatically.

litemotiv · 2011-07-19 19:48:22

Awebb wrote:

Those lines wrap automatically.

I thought it was a poem...

Awebb · 2011-07-19 20:31:12

litemotiv wrote:

I thought it was a poem...

Yes, somehow. On the other hand, I tend to ignore things written in a free verse.

thayer · 2011-07-19 21:00:56

litemotiv wrote:

Awebb wrote:
Those lines wrap automatically.
I thought it was a poem...

Epic.

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-20 10:26:38

Inxsible wrote:

so your gripe is about a wiki page not being updated then?
A _critical_ wiki page.
If so, the wiki is a collaborative effort. If you find mistakes and/or outdated information, you can create an account and rectify those entries, you know.

If I was qualified to do that, I wouldn't need the document.

Bruce

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-20 10:31:12

Awebb wrote:

Arch does not take care of anything. Arch is not an entity that is entitled to do something on it's own. If that was the case, Arch would be sentient enough to be a citizen and most likely decide to turn it's back on most of us. While I sometimes find that my Arch box has a will of it's own, I'd really find the idea spooky that it might be part of some sort of hive mind of Arch boxes.
If you have a look at the discussion page, you will find that the article is in good hands. It has been flagged out of date for a while and there is a note about dhcpcd ←→ dhclient in the article itself. They also recognized the fact, that dropping the net-tools package has an impact on the article. I haven't had a look at the changes yet, I'm still a happy user of wicd, but I certainly would not hesitate to edit that article with my own hands (close your eyes for a moment and try to imagine).
Oh and by the way: Those lines wrap automatically.

I'm just saying that the Networking doc should take precedence over any "bleeding edge"
endeavors. In the final analysis, a truly "bleeding edge" distro must have a rock solid
foundation.

Bruce

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-20 10:33:34

litemotiv wrote:

Awebb wrote:
Those lines wrap automatically.
I thought it was a poem...

:-) There was a young man from Nantuckett....

Allan · 2011-07-20 10:54:05

Just consider it a competency test for new users.

litemotiv · 2011-07-20 10:54:47

brucejustbruce wrote:

:-) There was a young man from Nantuckett....

Who couldn't connect through his socket...

Inxsible · 2011-07-20 15:40:10

litemotiv wrote:

brucejustbruce wrote:
:-) There was a young man from Nantuckett....
Who couldn't connect through his socket...

and so he kept saying Fu** it !

on topic :: yeah the networking procedure changed recently with the deprecation of net-tools, so the wiki page will be updated in due course.

tomk · 2011-07-20 15:54:19

brucejustbruce wrote:

I'm just saying that the Networking doc should take precedence over any "bleeding edge"
endeavors. In the final analysis, a truly "bleeding edge" distro must have a rock solid
foundation.

No offense intended, but your comments suggest that Arch may not be the right fit for you - or at the very least, that you should consider familiarising yourself more thoroughly with Arch's principles and approach.

Some points to mull over for now: the wiki is not part of arch's official output (with the exception of a handful of pages). Arch users are expected to contribute by helping themselves and others, and many of them do this by creating and maintaining wiki pages - very successfully overall, but inevitably there are occasional delays between official actions and community reactions.

wonder · 2011-07-20 16:39:02

to be more serious than other replies, @brucejustbruce the networking syntax had change recently and aif is a bit behind.

all you have to do is to report a bug and clarify what's wrong. For what i see, aif is saving to rc.conf for newly ftp installations, a network syntax that is broken and wouldn't be like that if net-tools was installed.

be sure that when a new iso is released officially everything is sorted out. falconindy already has patches to fix this issue.

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-20 21:13:16

litemotiv wrote:

brucejustbruce wrote:
:-) There was a young man from Nantuckett....
Who couldn't connect through his socket...

Touche!

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-20 21:19:39

Allan wrote:

Just consider it a competency test for new users.

Well, since I installed Arch for the first time, without AIF, I have already
proven myself more competent than most beginning Arch users.

And judging from the extensive problems posted on these forums, I
am doing pretty good.

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-20 21:23:43

tomk wrote:

brucejustbruce wrote:
I'm just saying that the Networking doc should take precedence over any "bleeding edge"
endeavors. In the final analysis, a truly "bleeding edge" distro must have a rock solid
foundation.
No offense intended, but your comments suggest that Arch may not be the right fit for you - or at the very least, that you should consider familiarising yourself more thoroughly with Arch's principles and approach
Some points to mull over for now: the wiki is not part of arch's official output (with the exception of a handful of pages). Arch users are expected to contribute by helping themselves and others, and many of them do this by creating and maintaining wiki pages - very successfully overall, but inevitably there are occasional delays between official actions and community reactions.

So because I post a problem with Arch, which thousands of people have done, over and over
here, suggests to you that Arch is not for me?

That makes no sense at all.

I have read all of the official install documents, and more. I've posted
most of their URLS on these forums. So once again, you just aren't
making any sense.

lilsirecho · 2011-07-20 21:29:34

Speaking of bleeding edge, my system is boot raid0 with 5 devices @ 306MB.s.

Can't screw up when your on that shtick!!!

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-20 21:29:38

wonder wrote:

to be more serious than other replies, @brucejustbruce the networking syntax had change recently and aif is a bit behind.
all you have to do is to report a bug and clarify what's wrong. For what i see, aif is saving to rc.conf for newly ftp installations, a network syntax that is broken and wouldn't be like that if net-tools was installed.
be sure that when a new iso is released officially everything is sorted out. falconindy already has patches to fix this issue.

Bless you for a helpful reply.

Practically speaking then, if I am following you, I should just wait for the next iso, and
do another install following the directions in:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/In … ting_Linux

And it will have net-tools and AIF will work for me?

wonder · 2011-07-21 05:55:47

brucejustbruce wrote:

wonder wrote:
to be more serious than other replies, @brucejustbruce the networking syntax had change recently and aif is a bit behind.
all you have to do is to report a bug and clarify what's wrong. For what i see, aif is saving to rc.conf for newly ftp installations, a network syntax that is broken and wouldn't be like that if net-tools was installed.
be sure that when a new iso is released officially everything is sorted out. falconindy already has patches to fix this issue.
Bless you for a helpful reply.
Practically speaking then, if I am following you, I should just wait for the next iso, and
do another install following the directions in:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/In … ting_Linux
And it will have net-tools and AIF will work for me?

yes, because network initscript will notice that it has an old syntax.

brucejustbruce · 2011-07-21 17:04:20

wonder wrote:

brucejustbruce wrote:
wonder wrote:
to be more serious than other replies, @brucejustbruce the networking syntax had change recently and aif is a bit behind.
all you have to do is to report a bug and clarify what's wrong. For what i see, aif is saving to rc.conf for newly ftp installations, a network syntax that is broken and wouldn't be like that if net-tools was installed.
be sure that when a new iso is released officially everything is sorted out. falconindy already has patches to fix this issue.
Bless you for a helpful reply.
Practically speaking then, if I am following you, I should just wait for the next iso, and
do another install following the directions in:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/In … ting_Linux
And it will have net-tools and AIF will work for me?
yes, because network initscript will notice that it has an old syntax.

Very cool indeed. Thanks, wonder

Bruce

Arch Linux

#1 2011-07-19 17:40:49

Bleeding Edge

#2 2011-07-19 17:51:12

Re: Bleeding Edge

#3 2011-07-19 19:43:06

Re: Bleeding Edge

#4 2011-07-19 19:48:22

Re: Bleeding Edge

#5 2011-07-19 20:31:12

Re: Bleeding Edge

#6 2011-07-19 21:00:56

Re: Bleeding Edge

#7 2011-07-20 10:26:38

Re: Bleeding Edge

#8 2011-07-20 10:31:12

Re: Bleeding Edge

#9 2011-07-20 10:33:34

Re: Bleeding Edge

#10 2011-07-20 10:54:05

Re: Bleeding Edge

#11 2011-07-20 10:54:47

Re: Bleeding Edge

#12 2011-07-20 15:40:10

Re: Bleeding Edge

#13 2011-07-20 15:54:19

Re: Bleeding Edge

#14 2011-07-20 16:39:02

Re: Bleeding Edge

#15 2011-07-20 21:13:16

Re: Bleeding Edge

#16 2011-07-20 21:19:39

Re: Bleeding Edge

#17 2011-07-20 21:23:43

Re: Bleeding Edge

#18 2011-07-20 21:29:34

Re: Bleeding Edge

#19 2011-07-20 21:29:38

Re: Bleeding Edge

#20 2011-07-21 05:55:47

Re: Bleeding Edge

#21 2011-07-21 17:04:20

Re: Bleeding Edge

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