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#1 2019-12-07 14:47:11

xerxes_
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Registered: 2018-04-29
Posts: 153

systemd-homed in Arch Linux

My basic question is about future of systemd-homed in Arch Linux. When it will be available and working in future releases of systemd, will users be forced to use it, or will they have a choice?

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#2 2019-12-08 15:10:11

WorMzy
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From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 9,305
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Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

Like most things systemd ships with (e.g. timesyncd, networkd, systemd-boot, systemd-firstboot, etc.), it's optional.

See https://media.ccc.de/v/ASG2019-164-rein … ies#t=2591 (notably ~43:00 for a direct answer to your question)


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#3 2019-12-09 15:07:26

graysky
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From: :wq
Registered: 2008-12-01
Posts: 9,901
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Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

WorMzy wrote:

Like most things systemd ships with (e.g. timesyncd, networkd, systemd-boot, systemd-firstboot, etc.), it's optional.

See https://media.ccc.de/v/ASG2019-164-rein … ies#t=2591 (notably ~43:00 for a direct answer to your question)

Thanks for the link, that dude might be brilliant but damn, he says "umm" way too much!


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#4 2019-12-12 19:51:09

dmerej
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From: Paris
Registered: 2016-04-09
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Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

I for one am quite eager to try it smile


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#5 2019-12-15 14:42:24

sekret
Member
Registered: 2013-07-22
Posts: 230

Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

graysky wrote:

Thanks for the link, that dude might be brilliant but damn, he says "umm" way too much!

In his defense: He's from Germany and we germans say "umm" (in german "ähm") all the time. In my opinion he's doing very well! Remember, he's doing a talk in a non-native language, which is hard enough.

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#6 2019-12-15 15:05:26

graysky
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From: :wq
Registered: 2008-12-01
Posts: 9,901
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Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

@sekret - Fair enough... if he still does it in his native language, this could be a drinking game!

Last edited by graysky (2019-12-18 12:18:30)


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#7 2019-12-18 12:14:53

sekret
Member
Registered: 2013-07-22
Posts: 230

Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

Doing so would kill you if you listened to me talking! wink

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#8 2019-12-18 17:00:10

eschwartz
Trusted User/Bug Wrangler
Registered: 2014-08-08
Posts: 2,966

Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

xerxes_ wrote:

My basic question is about future of systemd-homed in Arch Linux. When it will be available and working in future releases of systemd, will users be forced to use it, or will they have a choice?

I can't imagine why anyone would think Arch Linux would refuse to support any installation that does home directories the way all Unix systems do and have done it for decades. Even systemd upstream doesn't have that much... nerve.

Equally, I don't see any reason to believe Arch Linux would deliberately disable some inert binaries you don't need to use. It's not Arch Linux's job to tell people that homed is pointless, people can figure that out on their own.


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#9 2019-12-18 17:10:09

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 17,004

Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

eeschwartz,

I don't often disagree with you; and I am not a systemd hater.  But consider whether following statement might have been prescient a couple years ago :

"I can't imagine why anyone would think Arch Linux would refuse to support any installation that does process 1 the way all Unix systems do and have done it for decades."

Edit:  Fixed the init process number after reading eschwartz's response O_o

Last edited by ewaller (2019-12-18 18:09:25)


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Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
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#10 2019-12-18 17:56:52

eschwartz
Trusted User/Bug Wrangler
Registered: 2014-08-08
Posts: 2,966

Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

There's a big difference between not supporting alternative init stacks for pid1, and dropping support for directories being "directories" instead of autogenerated partition mount points with goop on top, which even so will still show up as "directories".

Like, I don't understand what could potentially be enforced here. Is logind going to suddenly start including the following pseudocode:

if user_account.is_not_daemon_user() and user_account.home_directory.is_not_homed():
    error("if you're a login user, you are required to store your home directory in systemd-homed, either use homed or reconfigure your account as a system daemon")

Home directories on Unix are ridiculously lenient, due to the fact that they're just... random directories associated with a user account lookup.

Last edited by eschwartz (2019-12-18 17:59:30)


Managing AUR repos The Right Way -- aurpublish (now a standalone tool)

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#11 2019-12-18 18:17:09

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 17,004

Re: systemd-homed in Arch Linux

I dunno.  There is a lot of PFM technology in systemd.  I still don't fully grasp everything going on with logind, seats, sessions, Xorg session and pulseaudio interaction.  It works for me, so I don't delve into it.
Frankly, I don't dismiss the possibility that your assertion might become true.

Edit:  Funny : "Home directories on Unix are ridiculously lenient"  I read that as lennart  tongue

Last edited by ewaller (2019-12-18 20:28:42)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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