NetworkManager-initrd tries starts despite NetworkManager running

seth · 2025-08-29 21:18:49

We know that also https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/usbmuxd/ (re)starts - why is that installed?
Did you attach a phone at this point? Did you add some udev rule for that?

Succulent of your garden · 2025-08-29 22:37:41

Jan wrote:

That's paru ... got the trust in it that it won't nuke my system.

My paru doesn't make that , I just use paru -Sua, and for the rest of course pacman -Syu. So in that case I just make paru to update the aur packages, not other things.
Using journalctl -b at least for me is not showing that, just only the latests journalctl -b invocation after trying pacman -Sua many times. Be cautious in what you are doing to not went into dependency hell and say hello to Dante with virgil down there

Jan wrote:

I can set up the systemd-notify-on-failure thingy so I get notified and then I'll report back.

Let us know then

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (2025-08-29 22:42:58)

tbg · 2025-09-03 07:49:28

Reported solution elsewhere:

 systemctl disable --now NetworkManager-initrd.service NetworkManager-wait-online-initrd.service

 systemctl mask NetworkManager-initrd.service NetworkManager-wait-online-initrd.service

seth · 2025-09-03 08:42:36

masking the service will prevent it from starting but not tell *why* this starts up itfp.
Where is "elsewhere"?

tbg · 2025-09-03 16:25:32

Source:

https://forum.garudalinux.org/t/conflic … t/45634/14

seth · 2025-09-03 18:57:41

Thanks.
Unfortunately there's no log and the service needed to be disabled to work around a complete network setup failure.

Hey @jil
Have you been able to pin what triggers the bogus service for you?

seth wrote:

Did you attach a phone at this point? Did you add some udev rule for that?

jl2 · 2025-09-03 19:29:24

Did you attach a phone at this point? Did you add some udev rule for that?

No, I had one on my laptop but no more since Networkmanager handles that stuff well.

Have you been able to pin what triggers the bogus service for you?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System … d_services doesn't work for some reason but only for this service.

Last edited by jl2 (2025-09-03 19:29:38)

seth · 2025-09-03 19:40:55

Edit the NM-initrd.service (w/ a drop-in) and add "ExecStartPre=/path/to/failure-notification.sh" - we don't really care about it's failure status, but just when it tries to start at all.
On top of that it's likely triggered by /usr/share/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.conf - both, NM.service and NM-initrd.service register the same BusName, see /usr/lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager-initrd.service and edit that there, but I've no idea why in gods name something would dbus-activate NM

Succulent of your garden · 2025-09-03 23:03:53

Seth wrote:

but I've no idea why in gods name something would dbus-activate NM

Because your are making this :

Seth wrote:

Hey @jil tongue

So now Jan's computer doesn't know if he is a man or a woman, you had created the doubt in it and now it has been manifested in two process that uses the same d-bus , just in case, one process is Jil and the other is Jan. Obviously Jil is the one that is creating the conflict on the computer, because there isn't any group or user called Jil in Jan's computer.

Oh god what I have done by making a simple mistake in the past naively ? Why I was thinking that jil could be something like an acronym ? Why you cursed me by being not a native english speaker and therefore not knowing that jil could be a woman's name and something was wrong in my spelling ? Why you cursed me with jl2==jil ==jn :C ?

I'm just joking and making fun of myself by the way. But I couldn't not notice seth's intentions there. Reading that made me felt a little bit of healthy shame inside. You made it seth. Congratulations ! Now also we have the first arch Linux dysphoric computer

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (2025-09-03 23:06:31)

jl2 · 2025-09-04 13:24:48

/etc/systemd/system/NetworkManager-initrd.service.d/override.conf:

[Unit]
Requires=failure-notification@%n.service
Before=failure-notification@%n.service

[Service]
ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/dbus-send --system / net.nuetzlich.SystemNotifications.Notify 'string:Systemd' 'string:Unit failed: %n (execpre)'
ExecReload=/usr/bin/dbus-send --system / net.nuetzlich.SystemNotifications.Notify 'string:Systemd' 'string:Unit failed: %n (reload)'

The unit doesn't give a shit about what I do, it won't activate. I know the service and the commands work.

(Tested by trying to start the service)

Last edited by jl2 (2025-09-04 13:25:07)

seth · 2025-09-04 13:59:02

The requires/before make no sense there?

seth wrote:

On top of that it's likely triggered by /usr/share/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.conf - both, NM.service and NM-initrd.service register the same BusName, see /usr/lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager-initrd.service and edit that there, but I've no idea why in gods name something would dbus-activate NM

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/NetworkM … ssues/1814

jl2 · 2025-09-04 14:08:24

On top of that it's likely triggered by /usr/share/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.conf - both, NM.service and NM-initrd.service register the same BusName, see /usr/lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager-initrd.service and edit that there, but I've no idea why in gods name something would dbus-activate NM

Edit the busname?

The requires/before make no sense there?

Why? I'd expect it to have a hard dep on the failure notification.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/NetworkM … ssues/1814

You mean it's a upstream problem?

Last edited by jl2 (2025-09-04 14:09:25)

seth · 2025-09-04 14:15:25

1. yes
2. we're not looking for any service failures, it won't get started tbw
3. yes, no idea what the plan is but shipping two services for the same name will provoke some collision

Stupid question: do you have /etc/initrd-release on you root partition?

jl2 · 2025-09-04 14:21:03

Stupid question: do you have /etc/initrd-release on you root partition?

Nope.

I've subscribed to the upstream issue, and I'll mask the unit for good measures (since I edited the BusName).

Succulent of your garden · 2025-09-04 19:06:55

Jan wrote:

and I'll mask the unit for good measures (since I edited the BusName).

That seems the meanwhile solution, since you are using Ethernet you probably would be fine , so you can disable or mask the service until the fix came. Other solution is to switch to ConnMan https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ConnMan

I can't understand why in your case is happening this issue, I mean as far I can see, this issue is not a general one by just using networking manager. What kind of config or setup is triggering the networkmanager issue ?

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (2025-09-04 19:08:10)

seth · 2025-09-04 19:14:50

This is unrelated the connection type, the problem is a conflict between two networkmanager services.
Why NM is triggered via dbus at runtime at all (and whether that's actually the only condition to trigger the warnings) is so far still not clear.

Succulent of your garden · 2025-09-04 23:39:00

mmmhhh... But it doesn't seems to be triggered in all systems, since I don't have it in my machine
Since now we now that there is an official issue in official NM repo. Why not trying to unplug the intel pci card Jan ? But probably it's more comfy to just mask the service. Just saying that I'm not affected by that in my case, not sure if could be something like hardware-driver related. I don't think so, it could be a weird bug not related to hardware. Hey now that I'm thinking, maybe you can trace back to the NN version that was not having this issue and just try to downgrade for only one boot to see if the issues disappears. If that's the case then is probably some NM code issue.

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (2025-09-04 23:41:27)

jl2 · 2025-09-05 06:20:50

Why not trying to unplug the intel pci card Jan ?

No, I'm not going to
* go for car straps to lift my stereo to get the PC out
* Screw open my Case, take it out, close it again
* Bash around with the cables outside of my PC
* put the stereo back
Just to see no improvement because it's a software problem.

But probably it's more comfy to just mask the service.

maybe you can trace back to the NN version that was not having this issue and just try to downgrade

No, I changed the bus name so it isn't conflicting, and then masked it for good measures.
Also, upstream knows which commit is causing it, and it is the one that added the NM-initrd service ...

Just saying that I'm not affected by that in my case,

Does NM-initrd service exist for you? Do you use NM?

Why NM is triggered via dbus at runtime at all (and whether that's actually the only condition to trigger the warnings) is so far still not clear.

The NM-initrd.service had a OnReload= command set, I guess the normal NM had one too. The command had the bus name in it (which was identlcal for both). Currently not on linux so I can't check, but it should be identical on your system. That might have something to do with it.

Last edited by jl2 (2025-09-05 06:22:11)

seth · 2025-09-05 07:17:30

but it should be identical on your system

Not using NM, but makes sense for the reload command trying to trigger a dbus method.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/NetworkM … ice.in#L12

NM systematically communicates via dbus (all. the. time.) but even if no dbus activation was/is required it's conceivable this might really just be busctl bitching around.
You could try to run that and see whether it causes the warnings/errors/complaints

Succulent of your garden · 2025-09-05 13:00:40

Jan wrote:

Also, upstream knows which commit is causing it, and it is the one that added the NM-initrd service ...

Oh so they know what is causing the issue, I didn't knew that. I should had checked that first before posting, but I missed it, sorry about commenting about getting out the card again , this week has been very hard worked and I feel very tired right now. But all of this have a reason in mind:

Jan wrote:

Does NM-initrd service exist for you? Do you use NM?

Yes, I use NM with iwd as you , also the initrd is dead as a service [ I read very quickly the post again, and it seems that's your case. But in case it don't sorry in advance, I made a fast reading because right now I don't want to drink coffee to read your post in detail, today is my caffeine out day. My brain needs to rest, that's it ]. So in practice we have the same stack and I'm not having your issue. Or at least NM + iwd

seth wrote:

Not using NM,

Can I know what are you using and why ? Probably you have a very nice answer

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (2025-09-05 13:01:18)

seth · 2025-09-05 16:19:00

potplant wrote:

Can I know what are you using and why ?

netctl (dhcpcd only on rj45-only systems and I'd not even use netctl if the system was limited to a single AP), NM is too hyperactive for my taste.
I like tools that obey my order, not trying to impress me with "works by magic, a lot of background scanning and other random network configuration)

jl2 · 2025-09-05 17:42:07

I like tools that obey my order

Random question, do you use systemd?

seth · 2025-09-05 18:02:55

There's no other init daemon supported on archlinux.
Doesn't mean that I'm a fan of the state-machine approach or the particular implementation.

Sometimes adults have to do things they don't overly like.
Eg. … YOUR MOTHER!

Succulent of your garden · 2025-09-06 00:02:02

seth wrote:

netctl (dhcpcd only on rj45-only systems and I'd not even use netctl if the system was limited to a single AP), NM is too hyperactive for my taste.

I knew it's gonna be something not NM Do you think the same for ConnMan ? netcl seems great, is this the official repo https://github.com/joukewitteveen/netctl ? Seems very kind out of maintenance :C . Not sure if it's because the has been done 100% and it's never going to fail, or better I want to be in a day to day maintenance project just in case something breaks I know that the support is already coming. Not sure if by that reason connMan could be a choice, I had tried before and its pretty neat.

EDIT[Duh I click submit earlier]:

Seth wrote:

Sometimes adults have to do things they don't overly like.
Eg. … YOUR MOTHER! tongue

If I'm getting your joke correctly cough cough:

My god, you went at least 25 years back in time . There is a chance this nice boy doesn't even have the zeitgeist experience to reply you properly. You make me sad, nah but here it is anyways:

Let me tell you something Seth: Here where I'm from, back in those times the mother thing was replaced with the sister. So the whole country started to reply to anything with: And your sister ? or sometimes: like your sister, but most of the time was and your sister ? Probably in English doesn't so too good to be an insulting joke, but in spanish and with the proper accent and questioning approach was so annoying to people and became an insult. Even in mainstream media came to be, I remember some TV commercials using that. Nobody was free of that, because if you don't have a sis, you would say: I don't have a sis, but then the immediate reply was [yes, this is going to sound so third world country to you guys, I'm sorry It's my living experience what else can I say]: Then I make you one ?

It was everywhere, no matter the phrase you can insert it and people start to do that very often, since also it was on TV commercials. For example a general use was:

Dude: This test is so easy.
Another dude replies: And your sister ? //Saying it with a very visceral almost scream, all the times, it was part of the "meme".

Everyone: Makes fun of dude1 and laughs.

Another example:

Dude: Hey be careful with the table leg it is loose.
Another dude: And your sister ?

Does these kind of stupid behaviors were also in Germany back then ? Now everyone is not doing that anymore here. In some way I'm glad it ended, it was so brutal here the usage. Probably if you were a woman and also have a sis then it was a complete nightmare, and obviously it was completely misogynistic. Because back then in my country in someway it was totally fine if you were a man and have intercourse with many woman and cheating as long as you can [ I knew one time a random day to day passing by dude who made 5 women pregnant at the same time, yep 5 ones, without each one knowing the 4 other ones] but if you were a woman then you were a bitch. Now days nobody does these kind of bad jokes, obviously the new kids didn't even knew about that happening before. Probably they take for granted that nice treatment in general public was always present in the world, but of course it wasn't.

Sorry Jan with all my hearth if you again found this post like a reddit one, it was my reality back ago and i'm not making fun of it at all. But Seth just started the old man conversation first! not me! We both probably were raised in a very pythonist world, and probably uncle seth came here a little bit drunk and post that to you :C

Last edited by Succulent of your garden (2025-09-06 02:00:06)

jl2 · 2025-09-06 06:53:18

Sometimes adults have to do things they don't overly like.
Eg. … YOUR MOTHER! tongue

Well, for me yours belongs to the "ooh, nice" thread

There is a chance this nice boy doesn't even have the zeitgeist experience to reply you properly.

WTF mother jokes always existed and will always exist
I think our generation's just got a little more sophisticated. But on the other hand ... a opportunity is a opportunity

if you again found this post like a reddit one

Oh, no you didn't get what I mean with reddit posts:
* they either hammer their opinion into your head (mostly repeatedly)
* or they have some ultra-gross made-up story that'll whack your head for a while

netctl (dhcpcd only on rj45-only systems and I'd not even use netctl if the system was limited to a single AP), NM is too hyperactive for my taste.

I used to use only iwd for network-only systems, with some udev rule to set up dhcpcd for my cell phone when I did USB tethering. This worked quite well, but recently I found to appreciate being able to monitor network speeds, I found only NM does for some reason? So now I use NM+iwd for iwgtk.
(My close-to-100% uptime systems all use dhcpcd+iwd OFC, NM tends to crash after a week or so)

Last edited by jl2 (2025-09-06 06:55:02)

Arch Linux

#26 2025-08-29 21:18:49

Re: NetworkManager-initrd tries starts despite NetworkManager running

#27 2025-08-29 22:37:41

Re: NetworkManager-initrd tries starts despite NetworkManager running

#28 2025-09-03 07:49:28

Re: NetworkManager-initrd tries starts despite NetworkManager running

#29 2025-09-03 08:42:36

Re: NetworkManager-initrd tries starts despite NetworkManager running

#30 2025-09-03 16:25:32

Re: NetworkManager-initrd tries starts despite NetworkManager running

#31 2025-09-03 18:57:41

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#32 2025-09-03 19:29:24

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#33 2025-09-03 19:40:55

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#34 2025-09-03 23:03:53

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#35 2025-09-04 13:24:48

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#36 2025-09-04 13:59:02

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#37 2025-09-04 14:08:24

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#38 2025-09-04 14:15:25

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#39 2025-09-04 14:21:03

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#40 2025-09-04 19:06:55

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#41 2025-09-04 19:14:50

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#42 2025-09-04 23:39:00

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#43 2025-09-05 06:20:50

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#44 2025-09-05 07:17:30

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#45 2025-09-05 13:00:40

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#46 2025-09-05 16:19:00

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#47 2025-09-05 17:42:07

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#48 2025-09-05 18:02:55

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#49 2025-09-06 00:02:02

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#50 2025-09-06 06:53:18

Re: NetworkManager-initrd tries starts despite NetworkManager running

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