Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 06:54:47

Hi. I've been using Arch Linux on my laptop for about six months. Before that, I was using Limine. About a week ago, I got bored and decided to reinstall Arch Linux with GRUB.

Everything is configured and working, but it feels like GRUB takes longer to boot. Specifically, after selecting Arch Linux, I get a black screen for about 3–5 seconds (maybe longer). If the system is selected automatically after the timeout, the GRUB splash screen just stays there. It feels like it's “thinking” after selecting the OS.

When I was using Limine, the boot felt faster — maybe it's subjective, but I definitely didn’t notice such delays.

Yesterday I was experimenting on another laptop: installed GRUB there as well, and saw the same delay. Then I switched to Limine (without reinstalling, just following a guide), and it actually boots faster.

So now I’m wondering: is it worth switching my main laptop to Limine? What are its advantages, and what do people generally use?

For me, the main criteria are:

a nice-looking bootloader,
and most importantly, support for system snapshots, so I can roll back at boot if needed.

5hridhyan · Yesterday 07:57:47

I mean, since you've already observed the difference in speed on two different machines, you probably already have your answer! If Limine feels better to you, you can switch, BUT

a nice-looking bootloader,
and most importantly, support for system snapshots, so I can roll back at boot if needed.

I don't think switching yet is reasonable.

regarding the delay: I use GRUB as well, usually, right after selecting 'Arch Linux,' it jumps immediately to 'Loading Linux / Loading initial ramdisk.' so like that 3–5 second "thinking" period you're seeing isn't "standard" behavior for Grub, it might be struggling to find a UUID or waiting on a specific module to load..?

Last edited by 5hridhyan (Yesterday 08:08:31)

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 08:05:47

5hridhyan wrote:

I mean, since you've already observed the difference in speed on two different machines, you probably already have your answer! If Limine feels better to you, you can switch, BUT
a nice-looking bootloader,
and most importantly, support for system snapshots, so I can roll back at boot if needed.
I don't think switching yet is reasonable.
regarding the delay: I use GRUB as well, usually, right after selecting 'Arch Linux,' it jumps immediately to 'Loading Linux / Loading initial ramdisk.' so like that 3–5 second "thinking" period you're seeing isn't "standard" behavior for Grub, it might be struggling to find a UUID or waiting on a specific module to load..?

How can I figure out why it’s behaving like this and what exactly might be missing?

5hridhyan · Yesterday 08:08:41

anything fancy in /etc/default/grub?
better please post the outputs of

cat /etc/default/grub
cat /etc/fstab

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 08:10:39

5hridhyan wrote:

anything fancy in /etc/default/grub?
better please post the outputs of
cat /etc/default/grub
cat /etc/fstab

# GRUB boot loader configuration

GRUB_DEFAULT=0
GRUB_TIMEOUT=3
GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR="Arch"
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="loglevel=3 quiet usbcore.quirks=13d3:5a07:i"
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""

# Preload both GPT and MBR modules so that they are not missed
GRUB_PRELOAD_MODULES="part_gpt part_msdos"

# Uncomment to enable booting from LUKS encrypted devices
#GRUB_ENABLE_CRYPTODISK=y

# Set to 'countdown' or 'hidden' to change timeout behavior,
# press ESC key to display menu.
GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=menu

# Uncomment to use basic console
GRUB_TERMINAL_INPUT=console

# Uncomment to disable graphical terminal
#GRUB_TERMINAL_OUTPUT=console

# The resolution used on graphical terminal
# note that you can use only modes which your graphic card supports via VBE
# you can see them in real GRUB with the command `videoinfo'
#GRUB_GFXMODE=auto
GRUB_GFXMODE=1920x1080x32

# Uncomment to allow the kernel use the same resolution used by grub
GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=keep

# Uncomment if you want GRUB to pass to the Linux kernel the old parameter
# format "root=/dev/xxx" instead of "root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/xxx"
#GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true

# Uncomment to disable generation of recovery mode menu entries
GRUB_DISABLE_RECOVERY=true

# Uncomment and set to the desired menu colors.  Used by normal and wallpaper
# modes only.  Entries specified as foreground/background.
#GRUB_COLOR_NORMAL="light-blue/black"
#GRUB_COLOR_HIGHLIGHT="light-cyan/blue"

# Uncomment one of them for the gfx desired, a image background or a gfxtheme
#GRUB_BACKGROUND="/path/to/wallpaper"
#GRUB_THEME="/path/to/gfxtheme"
GRUB_THEME="/boot/grub/themes/Arch-Linux/theme.txt"

# Uncomment to get a beep at GRUB start
#GRUB_INIT_TUNE="480 440 1"

# Uncomment to make GRUB remember the last selection. This requires
# setting 'GRUB_DEFAULT=saved' above.
#GRUB_SAVEDEFAULT=true

# Uncomment to disable submenus in boot menu
#GRUB_DISABLE_SUBMENU=y

# Probing for other operating systems is disabled for security reasons. Read
# documentation on GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER, if still want to enable this
# functionality install os-prober and uncomment to detect and include other
# operating systems.
#GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=false

# Static information about the filesystems.
# See fstab(5) for details.

# <file system> <dir> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>
# /dev/sda2
UUID=4cbee289-af35-4375-9cf9-d6722f3091db       /               btrfs           rw,relatime,compress=zstd:3,ssd,discard=async,space_cache=v2,subvol=/@  0 0

# /dev/sda2
UUID=4cbee289-af35-4375-9cf9-d6722f3091db       /home           btrfs           rw,relatime,compress=zstd:3,ssd,discard=async,space_cache=v2,subvol=/@home      0 0

# /dev/sda2
UUID=4cbee289-af35-4375-9cf9-d6722f3091db       /var/cache/pacman/pkg   btrfs           rw,relatime,compress=zstd:3,ssd,discard=async,space_cache=v2,subvol=/@pkg       0 0

# /dev/sda2
UUID=4cbee289-af35-4375-9cf9-d6722f3091db       /var/log        btrfs           rw,relatime,compress=zstd:3,ssd,discard=async,space_cache=v2,subvol=/@log       0 0

# /dev/sda1
UUID=7C4F-1048          /boot           vfat            rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortname=mixed,utf8,errors=remount-ro   0 2

5hridhyan · Yesterday 08:22:21

hmm, no issues w/ UUIDs and stuff, have you tried turning off "aesthetics"?

Last edited by 5hridhyan (Yesterday 08:24:51)

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 08:25:01

5hridhyan wrote:

hmm, no issues w/ UUIDs and stuff, have you tried turning off "aesthetics"?

Yeah, I tried disabling that too — same thing.

5hridhyan · Yesterday 08:37:13

so you stopped forcing GFX resolution, also tried w/o your theme, yet 3-5 seconds delay, right?
if that's the case; where is the delay exactly? after "Loading Linux..." or before?
try removing quiet and use 7 instead of 3 (loglevel)

Last edited by 5hridhyan (Yesterday 09:03:03)

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 10:52:24

5hridhyan wrote:

so you stopped forcing GFX resolution, also tried w/o your theme, yet 3-5 seconds delay, right?
if that's the case; where is the delay exactly? after "Loading Linux..." or before?
try removing quiet and use 7 instead of 3 (loglevel)

I tested it without any changes.

GRUB loads and I select Arch Linux. After that, there is a ~7-second black screen before any kernel messages appear. Then the boot logs start, and everything proceeds normally.

WorMzy · Yesterday 10:55:47

Mod note: Moving to System Administration.

5hridhyan · Yesterday 11:06:40

earlier 5hridhyan asked
so you stopped forcing GFX resolution, also tried w/o your theme, yet 3-5 seconds delay, right?
try removing quiet and use 7 instead of 3 (loglevel)

but besstsoft@gmail.com responded
I tested it without any changes.

did you mean you haven't removed your themes/aesthetics and haven't stopped forcing GFX resolution, also didn't remove quiet and not added loglevel=7?

Edit:

GRUB loads and I select Arch Linux. After that, there is a ~7-second black screen before any kernel messages appear. Then the boot logs start, and everything proceeds normally.

so its before; it's happening in GRUB stage itself, again; I sus Arch-Linux/theme.txt or the 1920x1080x32 resolution handoff as culprit if you haven't tried removing it already.

Last edited by 5hridhyan (Yesterday 11:32:43)

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 11:35:47

5hridhyan wrote:

earlier 5hridhyan asked
so you stopped forcing GFX resolution, also tried w/o your theme, yet 3-5 seconds delay, right?
try removing quiet and use 7 instead of 3 (loglevel)
but besstsoft@gmail.com responded
I tested it without any changes.
did you mean you haven't removed your themes/aesthetics and haven't stopped forcing GFX resolution, also didn't remove quiet and not added loglevel=7?
Edit:
GRUB loads and I select Arch Linux. After that, there is a ~7-second black screen before any kernel messages appear. Then the boot logs start, and everything proceeds normally.
so its before; it's happening in GRUB stage itself, again; I sus Arch-Linux/theme.txt or the 1920x1080x32 resolution handoff as culprit if you haven't tried removing it already.

I removed quiet and set loglevel=7.

I haven’t removed the GRUB theme yet, but the same delay was already present right after a fresh installation, before I made any customizations.

5hridhyan · Yesterday 11:44:06

Please refrain from using unnecessary quotes

if the delay is in the GRUB stage, loglevel=7 won't show anything because the kernel hasn't started yet.

To prove it's not the hardware/firmware, you must eliminate the variables, Please comment out GRUB_THEME and GRUB_GFXMODE, run `grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg` and reboot

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 14:09:07

5hridhyan wrote:

Please comment out GRUB_THEME and GRUB_GFXMODE, run `grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg` and reboot

I followed your instructions, but the behavior is the same.

After selecting Arch Linux in GRUB, there is a ~7-second black screen. Then the Arch Linux logo appears, and after that the kernel messages start showing.

5hridhyan · Yesterday 15:05:26

another laptop: installed GRUB there as well, and saw the same delay

so No theme, No GFX resolution, same delay on two different machines

anyways, lets see

ls -lh /boot
cat /etc/mkinitcpio.conf

Edit:
that USB quirk (usbcore.quirks=13d3:5a07:i) in your cmdline is kinda sus, but it shouldn't contribute in a whole ~7 seconds delay, for sanity can you please try w/o it
it would be very odd for a argument of "NVME v/s SATA" that too for a 7 seconds delay

Last edited by 5hridhyan (Yesterday 15:38:39)

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 15:54:26

5hridhyan wrote:

ls -lh /boot
cat /etc/mkinitcpio.conf

drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4,0K кві 24 10:13 EFI/
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4,0K кві 29 17:40 grub/
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  15M лют 27 19:22 intel-ucode.img*
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4,0K кві 29 18:50 loader/
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  16M кві 25 09:37 vmlinuz-linux*

# vim:set ft=sh:
# MODULES
# The following modules are loaded before any boot hooks are
# run.  Advanced users may wish to specify all system modules
# in this array.  For instance:
#     MODULES=(usbhid xhci_hcd)
MODULES=()

# BINARIES
# This setting includes any additional binaries a given user may
# wish into the CPIO image.  This is run last, so it may be used to
# override the actual binaries included by a given hook
# BINARIES are dependency parsed, so you may safely ignore libraries
BINARIES=()

# FILES
# This setting is similar to BINARIES above, however, files are added
# as-is and are not parsed in any way.  This is useful for config files.
FILES=()

# HOOKS
# This is the most important setting in this file.  The HOOKS control the
# modules and scripts added to the image, and what happens at boot time.
# Order is important, and it is recommended that you do not change the
# order in which HOOKS are added.  Run 'mkinitcpio -H <hook name>' for
# help on a given hook.
# 'base' is _required_ unless you know precisely what you are doing.
# 'udev' is _required_ in order to automatically load modules
# 'filesystems' is _required_ unless you specify your fs modules in MODULES
# Examples:
##   This setup specifies all modules in the MODULES setting above.
##   No RAID, lvm2, or encrypted root is needed.
#    HOOKS=(base)
#
##   This setup will autodetect all modules for your system and should
##   work as a sane default
#    HOOKS=(base udev autodetect microcode modconf block filesystems fsck)
#
##   This setup will generate a 'full' image which supports most systems.
##   No autodetection is done.
#    HOOKS=(base udev microcode modconf block filesystems fsck)
#
##   This setup assembles a mdadm array with an encrypted root file system.
##   Note: See 'mkinitcpio -H mdadm_udev' for more information on RAID devices.
#    HOOKS=(base udev microcode modconf keyboard keymap consolefont block mdadm_udev encrypt filesystems fsck)
#
##   This setup loads an lvm2 volume group.
#    HOOKS=(base udev microcode modconf block lvm2 filesystems fsck)
#
##   This will create a systemd based initramfs which loads an encrypted root filesystem.
#    HOOKS=(base systemd autodetect microcode modconf kms keyboard sd-vconsole sd-encrypt block filesystems fsck)
#
##   NOTE: If you have /usr on a separate partition, you MUST include the
#    usr and fsck hooks.
HOOKS=(base udev autodetect microcode modconf kms keyboard keymap consolefont block filesystems fsck)

# COMPRESSION
# Use this to compress the initramfs image. By default, zstd compression
# is used for Linux ≥ 5.9 and gzip compression is used for Linux < 5.9.
# Use 'cat' to create an uncompressed image.
#COMPRESSION="zstd"
#COMPRESSION="gzip"
#COMPRESSION="bzip2"
#COMPRESSION="lzma"
#COMPRESSION="xz"
#COMPRESSION="lzop"
#COMPRESSION="lz4"

# COMPRESSION_OPTIONS
# Additional options for the compressor
#COMPRESSION_OPTIONS=()

# MODULES_DECOMPRESS
# Decompress loadable kernel modules and their firmware during initramfs
# creation. Switch (yes/no).
# Enable to allow further decreasing image size when using high compression
# (e.g. xz -9e or zstd --long --ultra -22) at the expense of increased RAM usage
# at early boot.
# Note that any compressed files will be placed in the uncompressed early CPIO
# to avoid double compression.
#MODULES_DECOMPRESS="no"

5hridhyan · Yesterday 16:24:07

since you are using BTRFS does

cat /proc/cmdline

shows `rootfstype=btrfs` and `rootflags=subvol=@` ?

also have you tried w/o `usbcore.quirks=13d3:5a07:i` (at least for temporarily?)

Last edited by 5hridhyan (Yesterday 19:50:08)

besstsoft@gmail.com · Yesterday 16:27:07

5hridhyan wrote:

since you are using BTRFS does
cat /proc/cmdline  
shows `rootfstype=btrfs` and `rootflags=subvol=@` ?
also have you tried w/o `usbcore.quirks=13d3:5a07:i` (at least for temporarily?)

Yes, I disabled usbcore.quirks=13d3:5a07:i (at least temporarily for testing).

cat /proc/cmdline
root=PARTUUID=4a94c7ce-f378-4b0d-9ed9-1e026506aa3b zswap.enabled=0 rootflags=subvol=@ rw rootfstype=btrfs

5hridhyan · Yesterday 16:58:17

drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4,0K кві 24 10:13 EFI/
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4,0K кві 29 17:40 grub/
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  15M лют 27 19:22 intel-ucode.img*
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4,0K кві 29 18:50 loader/
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  16M кві 25 09:37 vmlinuz-linux

I just saw now, where is your initramfs? it's not in /boot with your kernel (AFAIK it does need to be accessible to GRUB, but it doesn’t strictly have to live in ESP if configured differently), Check if it's hiding inside the /@/boot subvolume on your Btrfs partition instead of the ESP!

find / -name "initramfs-linux.img" 2>/dev/null

if that's the case either mount the Btrfs subvolume containing the real /boot, or regenerate your initramfs directly to the ESP
does this mean limine was ok w/ that the whole time? not sure about that either

Edit:
re-wrote the whole post after questioning my sanity

Last edited by 5hridhyan (Yesterday 19:14:53)

besstsoft@gmail.com · Today 07:29:22

Yesterday I switched to Limine, and interestingly, there is no such delay anymore — the system boots quickly.

However, I made a small mistake after switching from GRUB to Limine. Everything was working fine at first, but I forgot to remove the old GRUB files:

rm -rf /boot/grub
rm -rf /boot/EFI/grub

After a few reboots into Limine, I started getting an error saying that GRUB was missing. It took me about 2 hours to figure out the issue, but I eventually fixed it, and now everything works properly.

Arch Linux

#1 Yesterday 06:54:47

Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#2 Yesterday 07:57:47

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#3 Yesterday 08:05:47

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#4 Yesterday 08:08:41

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#5 Yesterday 08:10:39

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#6 Yesterday 08:22:21

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#7 Yesterday 08:25:01

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#8 Yesterday 08:37:13

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#9 Yesterday 10:52:24

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#10 Yesterday 10:55:47

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#11 Yesterday 11:06:40

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#12 Yesterday 11:35:47

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#13 Yesterday 11:44:06

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#14 Yesterday 14:09:07

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#15 Yesterday 15:05:26

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#16 Yesterday 15:54:26

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#17 Yesterday 16:24:07

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#18 Yesterday 16:27:07

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

#19 Yesterday 16:58:17

Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

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Re: Is it worth switching from GRUB to Limine?

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