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#1 2009-02-03 07:36:59

Schneibster
Member
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 32

OK, who left out sendmail?

I'm sure postfix is very nice and all, but I actually know how to construct mc files and which templates to use, and how to generate a sendmail.cf, and I know how to check if it's secure. I have to run a real sendmail server, outgoing email, heavy traffic in and out, no screwin' around, the ISP's email server won't do it, and I don't want to be propagating spam or letting some fool put it through my MTA, or for that matter letting any more of it than I have to through to my users. Yes, I know about IMAP servers, yes, I know about Spamassassin, yes, I know about setting up a clamav scanner on it, yes, I know about blackhole servers and I subscribe to two of them and faithfully add spam signatures to them.

Here's where the rubber meets the road, kids. I don't want to learn a new product, I want to use sendmail from the sendmail consortium, period. No ifs ands or buts. I know where the code came from, I know how to set it up, and I frankly can't be bothered with someone's "better" solution that I'll have to keep watch over for the next five years to make sure someone didn't find a security hole in it, and I'm not particularly interested in having my ISP shut down my connection because somebody hacked postfix. I cannot imagine that there's nobody else out there doing this; for SOHO if nothing else, and I cannot imagine nobody geeky enough to be using sendmail finding Arch Linux. Yes, you need to have the book with the bat on it, yes, you need to know how this stuff really works, no, postfix is not an acceptable substitute, no, you shouldn't be using it if you don't know what you're doing in detail. Sendmail is there because it's the most configurable, flexible, dependable, fast, efficient solution.

Workstations are very nice and all, but it's SERVER TIME. Is there nobody out there doing this?

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#2 2009-02-03 07:56:19

Allan
Pacman
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 11,357
Website

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

If you want it and know it as well as you say, it should be easy enough for you to make your own PKGBUILD and submit it to the AUR for all to use.

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#3 2009-02-03 08:42:19

Schneibster
Member
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 32

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

I'm struggling with disbelief no one has. OK, well, this is going to be relatively simple; it's not a complex program, no graphics and stuff. I'll see what I can do. Fair warning: if you screw up with sendmail, you'll make a mess that your ISP will hear about and you'll get cut off. Anybody finds this thread later, you've been warned.

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#4 2009-02-03 14:49:31

robmaloy
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-14
Posts: 263

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

wow, mr tough guy using the real super tough mail server

:applause:


☃ Snowman ☃

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#5 2009-02-03 21:51:46

fukawi2
Ex-Administratorino
From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,217
Website

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

Schneibster wrote:

I'm struggling with disbelief no one has.

I'm struggling with disbelief at your demanding attitude. You haven't paid a cent for Arch, the developers and package maintainers ain't paid anything and yet you seem to feel violated that no-one else holds sendmail in such high regard as you so as to have packaged it.

You're entitled to your opinion and preference, and I'll be the first one to stand up for your right to that, even when I don't agree... But please remember that it is your opinion, and not something that you need to force on to everyone else.

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#6 2009-02-03 22:23:28

cdwillis
Member
From: /home/usa
Registered: 2008-11-20
Posts: 294

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

It does seem surprising there isn't already a package for it in the AUR, but it sounds like you should be able to write up a PKBUILD for it easily. Good luck.

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#7 2009-02-03 22:54:04

Schneibster
Member
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 32

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

fukawi2 wrote:
Schneibster wrote:

I'm struggling with disbelief no one has.

I'm struggling with disbelief at your demanding attitude. You haven't paid a cent for Arch, the developers and package maintainers ain't paid anything and yet you seem to feel violated that no-one else holds sendmail in such high regard as you so as to have packaged it.

You're entitled to your opinion and preference, and I'll be the first one to stand up for your right to that, even when I don't agree... But please remember that it is your opinion, and not something that you need to force on to everyone else.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion too, but this is a pretty major lack from the server point of view. That's OK, I like Arch, I'll fix it. Arch is fast, lightweight, optimized, and easy to deploy and maintain. What's surprising me is that more server builders aren't using it in situations where a lightweight server is indicated, and if server builders use it, then sendmail is pretty much mandatory.

ETA: To make this clear, from a server point of view, this is very much like finding out X hasn't been made for it from a workstation point of view. I'm not complaining, I'm astonished. Literally. It may be that the consensus is that sendmail is too complex; and it's true, it's a very simple program with incredibly complex configuration. It is, however, the server MTA, and there are about a million server admins out there who know how to set it up and might not view Arch with favor if it doesn't have it.

I didn't want anyone wasting their time telling me to try postfix or about clamav or RBH servers or other stuff I already know, so I made sure to mention what I already know about. Sorry if you saw that as aggressive.

Last edited by Schneibster (2009-02-03 23:02:53)

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#8 2009-02-03 22:55:19

Schneibster
Member
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 32

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

cdwillis wrote:

It does seem surprising there isn't already a package for it in the AUR, but it sounds like you should be able to write up a PKBUILD for it easily. Good luck.

Thanks. It'll take a bit, I'm in the middle of buildouts for about five machines right now. I'll get there.

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#9 2009-02-03 22:55:26

rson451
Member
From: Annapolis, MD USA
Registered: 2007-04-15
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

It's possible that there was a sendmail entry in the AUR at one point, iirc there were quite a few entries being adopted and deleted maliciously for a while.


archlinux - please read this and this — twice — then ask questions.
--
http://rsontech.net | http://github.com/rson

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#10 2009-02-03 23:05:42

Schneibster
Member
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 32

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

rson451 wrote:

It's possible that there was a sendmail entry in the AUR at one point, iirc there were quite a few entries being adopted and deleted maliciously for a while.

Wow, that's not good. Somebody did the work and it disappeared into a deep black hole? Bummer. Seems to me that might need to get fixed, hope it already has.

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#11 2009-02-03 23:14:15

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,189

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

Allan wrote:

If you want it and know it as well as you say, it should be easy enough for you to make your own PKGBUILD and submit it to the AUR for all to use.

I must echo my colleague's sentiments.

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#12 2009-02-03 23:26:35

Schneibster
Member
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 32

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

Misfit138 wrote:
Allan wrote:

If you want it and know it as well as you say, it should be easy enough for you to make your own PKGBUILD and submit it to the AUR for all to use.

I must echo my colleague's sentiments.

I need to ask, was there a philosophical reason behind this decision, or did it just grow that way, or was it an oversight, or what? Or is the speculation in the prior message from rson451 correct? And if so did something get done about it? Because if not I'm not sure I see the point in making a contribution if it's just gonna get deleted by someone later on, whether maliciously or because of a philosophical conflict.

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#13 2009-02-03 23:30:26

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,622
Website

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

I recommend locking this thread and moving it to the troll bin.

also: sendmail is pretty turd sandwich in this day and age. I lol at this thread.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#14 2009-02-03 23:38:09

Schneibster
Member
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 32

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

LOL all you like, it's the most popular MTA on the Internet (though recent studies suggest it might be declining even though still #1, and since the competitors include Exchange Server, sure do hope you like Micro$oft, because I'd bet there's been market share gained there). I'd be interested in knowing whether postfix or EXIM are gaining enough popularity that they're worth learning.

I don't, BTW, advocate it as a main MTA for a workstation. But this is the server forum (says so right there in the forum title) and this is the standard UNIX server MTA solution.

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#15 2009-02-03 23:46:01

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,942

Re: OK, who left out sendmail?

This thread has accomplished everything that it can.

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