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#1 2010-09-01 11:50:23

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

Hello there,

this is not to start any flame war, but I'll show you a simple use case which (miserably) failed on Arch Linux vs Windows.

I get my friend's computer, with the ugly Windows Vista. I google for freecad, get the installer, install it and use it. Fine. It's open source so when I get home at my linux box I'll surely get also FreeCAD and start using it.

I go home, packer -Syu --noconfirm freecad; the package tool finds it on AUR and starts installing the required dependencies. I think: fine then, I'll start using it in a while. That was 6 hours ago and it's still compiling...

This is a failure for me. I know I could get some package autoinstaller or hack the DEB file from the official website, but can't we fix this straight for the beloved Arch Linux? sad

Thanks all


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#2 2010-09-01 12:01:28

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

I don't get it. [archstuff] has most voted compiled packages from AUR, you can create a similar repo for anything you want. While you're at it, please compile mplayer-minimal-svn for i686 so I don't have to.

Last edited by karol (2010-09-01 12:02:11)

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#3 2010-09-01 12:05:03

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

karol wrote:

I don't get it. [archstuff] has most voted compiled packages from AUR, you can create a similar repo for anything you want. While you're at it, please compile mplayer-minimal-svn for i686 so I don't have to.

The topic says it all: "not for newbies". Does creating a similar repo look like "for newbies"? I don't think so. And what is archstuff? This is the first time I hear about it


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#4 2010-09-01 12:06:08

Allan
Pacman
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 11,384
Website

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

newbies != impatient...

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#5 2010-09-01 12:06:59

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Uno … positories
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way

Arch is not for clueless newbies, but letting some apps compile isn't _that_ hard.

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#6 2010-09-01 12:14:24

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

Allan wrote:

newbies != impatient...

OK. But I think you got my point. I can't stand that Windows and even other distros can have it installed in a while and I am right now still compiling...

Does somebody know why it is not on [community]?


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#7 2010-09-01 12:15:18

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

karol wrote:

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Uno … positories
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way

Arch is not for clueless newbies, but letting some apps compile isn't _that_ hard.

I am not saying that Arch is for clueless newbies, but that it's a pity that this application requires so much time to get installed on Arch Linux


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#8 2010-09-01 12:15:28

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

legolas558 wrote:
Allan wrote:

newbies != impatient...

OK. But I think you got my point. I can't stand that Windows and even other distros can have it installed in a while and I am right now still compiling...

Does somebody know why it is not on [community]?

All hands are already on deck, so unless you join in and become a TU, chances are slim.

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#9 2010-09-01 12:16:44

dcc24
Member
Registered: 2009-10-31
Posts: 732

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

So, let me get this straight. You have a precompiled binary for Windows and a source package for Arch. And you are wondering why does compiling take time? If an Arch binary existed, which you can obtain by compiling, installation would be fast in Arch too.

Also, this is not about "FreeCAD not being for Arch newbies", it is about knowing the binary/source difference and if you are having problems comprehending that, then I suggest you do some reading before putting the blame on Arch.

Last edited by dcc24 (2010-09-01 12:18:29)


It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. (Mark Twain)

My AUR packages

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#10 2010-09-01 12:19:34

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

dcc24 wrote:

So, let me get this straight. You have a precompiled binary for Windows and a source package for Arch. And you are wondering why does compiling take time?

Well... This is not about "FreeCAD not being for Arch newbies", it is about knowing the binary/source difference and if you are having problems comprehending that, then I suggest you do some reading before putting the blame on Arch.

I think (s)he knows the difference as IIRC OP is / was involved in some kernel patching.


freecad has 40 votes and mplayer-minimal-svn has 42 so I want mplayer to go into [community] first! And don't forget the pony!

Last edited by karol (2010-09-01 12:20:55)

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#11 2010-09-01 12:27:27

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

dcc24 wrote:

So, let me get this straight. You have a precompiled binary for Windows and a source package for Arch. And you are wondering why does compiling take time? If an Arch binary existed, which you can obtain by compiling, installation would be fast in Arch too.

Also, this is not about "FreeCAD not being for Arch newbies", it is about knowing the binary/source difference and if you are having problems comprehending that, then I suggest you do some reading before putting the blame on Arch.

I am specifically complaining about the lack of a pre-compiled binary package for freecad (and its dependencies, like the huge opencascade) in Arch Linux. I regularly use Arch Linux, Gentoo, Debian and Ubuntu so, yes, I know the difference. I am just saying that Arch Linux + binary package for freecad is better than Arch Linux without it, so I'd like to know why it was excluded and/or nobody ever tried to submit it for the [community] repo.


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#12 2010-09-01 12:29:28

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

Anyway, my whole point about "newbies don't like source packages" is that a newbie would probably have interrupted compilation after the first 2 hours, and not be still waiting like I am now...I think this is not an absolute truth but a reasonably true statement.

Last edited by legolas558 (2010-09-01 12:29:46)


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#13 2010-09-01 12:30:08

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

legolas558 wrote:
dcc24 wrote:

So, let me get this straight. You have a precompiled binary for Windows and a source package for Arch. And you are wondering why does compiling take time? If an Arch binary existed, which you can obtain by compiling, installation would be fast in Arch too.

Also, this is not about "FreeCAD not being for Arch newbies", it is about knowing the binary/source difference and if you are having problems comprehending that, then I suggest you do some reading before putting the blame on Arch.

I am specifically complaining about the lack of a pre-compiled binary package for freecad (and its dependencies, like the huge opencascade) in Arch Linux. I regularly use Arch Linux, Gentoo, Debian and Ubuntu so, yes, I know the difference. I am just saying that Arch Linux + binary package for freecad is better than Arch Linux without it, so I'd like to know why it was excluded and/or nobody ever tried to submit it for the [community] repo.

Too many packages, to few people maintaining them.

Please, just because the package *you* care about is not in the [community] you have to start a thread?

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#14 2010-09-01 12:31:15

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

legolas558 wrote:

Anyway, my whole point about "newbies don't like source packages" is that a newbie would probably have interrupted compilation after the first 2 hours, and not be still waiting like I am now...I think this is not an absolute truth but a reasonably true statement.

No, that's not a newbie, thats a clueless newbie :-)
Arch is not for noobs, they use Ubuntu ;-)

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#15 2010-09-01 12:36:32

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

karol wrote:
dcc24 wrote:

So, let me get this straight. You have a precompiled binary for Windows and a source package for Arch. And you are wondering why does compiling take time?

Well... This is not about "FreeCAD not being for Arch newbies", it is about knowing the binary/source difference and if you are having problems comprehending that, then I suggest you do some reading before putting the blame on Arch.

I think (s)he knows the difference as IIRC OP is / was involved in some kernel patching.


freecad has 40 votes and mplayer-minimal-svn has 42 so I want mplayer to go into [community] first! And don't forget the pony!

Thank you karol however I don't think I contributed any patch for that specific bug, I have made contributions for other kernel bugs.

I understand that there are also other packages which cause much hassle between users, this one (freecad) is worth many many hours of compilation so I asked the reasons why it was not available in a pre-compiled package in order to possibly do something to fix things.

It's great that the private [archstuff] repository already has it, but that's not comparable to having it in the [community] repository which would - for example - be updated and be taken care of with much higher frequency.


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#16 2010-09-01 12:40:35

fukawi2
Ex-Administratorino
From: .vic.au
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 6,222
Website

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

karol wrote:

Please, just because the package *you* care about is not in the [community] you have to start a thread?

Exactly. This is a community distribution, and no-one owes anyone anything. There's lots of packages that I use that none of the devs have any interest and/or time to maintain so I have to compile them from AUR. Big deal -- that's what the AUR is for, and that's how Arch works. If you want everything precompiled, then use a distribution with a larger group of devs and larger repositories such as Debian or Ubuntu.

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#17 2010-09-01 12:41:22

rson451
Member
From: Annapolis, MD USA
Registered: 2007-04-15
Posts: 1,233
Website

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

It all comes down to who wants to maintain it.  If no one wants to maintain it, it could have 1000 votes and still be in the AUR.  If some TU used freecad on a regular basis they would probably package it and maintin it in [community], until then it will be in the AUR.


archlinux - please read this and this — twice — then ask questions.
--
http://rsontech.net | http://github.com/rson

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#18 2010-09-01 12:44:19

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

I honestly don't know how often is [archstuff] updated, so I can't speak of that.

There are efforts to have biiiig packages in the [community] in order to save users hours of compilation time.

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#19 2010-09-01 12:49:48

sctincman
Member
From: CO (USA)
Registered: 2009-04-08
Posts: 85

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

There is always the deb2targz utility, no need to hack the .deb package (unless something doesn't work)

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#20 2010-09-01 13:11:09

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

karol wrote:
legolas558 wrote:
dcc24 wrote:

So, let me get this straight. You have a precompiled binary for Windows and a source package for Arch. And you are wondering why does compiling take time? If an Arch binary existed, which you can obtain by compiling, installation would be fast in Arch too.

Also, this is not about "FreeCAD not being for Arch newbies", it is about knowing the binary/source difference and if you are having problems comprehending that, then I suggest you do some reading before putting the blame on Arch.

I am specifically complaining about the lack of a pre-compiled binary package for freecad (and its dependencies, like the huge opencascade) in Arch Linux. I regularly use Arch Linux, Gentoo, Debian and Ubuntu so, yes, I know the difference. I am just saying that Arch Linux + binary package for freecad is better than Arch Linux without it, so I'd like to know why it was excluded and/or nobody ever tried to submit it for the [community] repo.

Too many packages, to few people maintaining them.

This is the information I needed. Thanks. I have asked because I really didn't know the reason nor could find why it was not on [community]. I thought about non-free dependencies, security issues or whatever, but I really didn't know.

karol wrote:

Please, just because the package *you* care about is not in the [community] you have to start a thread?

I don't care particularly for this package or for any other...I just picked up an use case which (partially) fails because (1) you can't know in advance how long it will take, (2) system can hangup (it just did!) and then you loose the partially compiled package, (3) the future upgrades will be bloody as well.


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#21 2010-09-01 13:15:05

legolas558
Member
Registered: 2009-09-08
Posts: 97

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

fukawi2 wrote:
karol wrote:

Please, just because the package *you* care about is not in the [community] you have to start a thread?

Exactly. This is a community distribution, and no-one owes anyone anything. There's lots of packages that I use that none of the devs have any interest and/or time to maintain so I have to compile them from AUR. Big deal -- that's what the AUR is for, and that's how Arch works. If you want everything precompiled, then use a distribution with a larger group of devs and larger repositories such as Debian or Ubuntu.

Has somebody else some ready-made phrase to throw in without caring to understand what I was asking for? If you have, please use it now.

Weather always get worse. And young people does no more know what respect means. And so on...

I wanted to know why the package is not there. It's not a useless complaint, it's a complaint with request of information which could possibly lead to fix the problem. Because if I complain, it is because I want to get it fixed - either personally or by somebody else - but I am already putting resources into it by discussing about it (like you are, theoretically).


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#22 2010-09-01 13:29:22

litemotiv
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2008-08-01
Posts: 5,026

Re: FreeCAD is not for newbies on Arch Linux

legolas558 wrote:

Has somebody else some ready-made phrase to throw in without caring to understand what I was asking for? If you have, please use it now.

I have one: the forums are not the place to complain about packaging. Also, if you want more positive reactions to your thread, you might want to reconsider your way of opening one next time.

Closed.


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