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#226 2012-09-22 12:26:31

89c51
Member
Registered: 2012-06-05
Posts: 649

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM1-QTMoXMA

A nice systemd presentation.

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#227 2012-09-24 00:08:53

dwillar
Member
Registered: 2012-08-10
Posts: 5

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I spent several hours watching videos of the "Gods of Unix" - Ritchie, Thompson, Kerrigan, et al. I imagine their collective comment on systemd might go something like this: "What took you talking monkeys so long to decide to bring your Linux into the 21st century?" The more I study systemd the in the forums, the more confused I become. I have one 32 bit Arch install under my belt. Took about six weeks to get all the warts to go away and it is now My System. Leaves me with a powerful hunger for more.

New mb, cpu, memory and graphics card in the mail. Case is ready, ps installed along with two cd rom drives. This one will be a 64 bit system with as pure a systemd configuration as I c an muster. If I survive, I will know. If I fail, well, there is always Ubuntu with that pos Unity desktop. wink

No professional is going to jump on systemd for their enterprise level network. They build a box and learn the new stuff before commiting to the new stuff. As long as I have one box that keeps my email running and, more importantly, maintains my connection to the Arch Wiki, I may as well try new things. Frying brain cells is ultimately good for you. At some point, you will cross a line and all this worry will go away. Someone will ask you a question and you won't have a clue what they are talking about. Your response will be "Have you RTFM?" They either think you are an arrogant person or they will come back after RTFM with a question that is appropriate and will get an answer that will help them. Learning how to build a system and administer it is not easy. RTFM only goes so far. Then it's time to log in as root and get dirty. Break stuff, fix stuff and learn! Life is short - get involved!

Great thread!

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#228 2012-09-24 01:13:56

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

TGN??
[Note: This post does not contain only capital letters. It never did. It also featured two question marks. However, believing is lowercase, apparently.]

Last edited by cfr (2012-09-24 01:15:36)


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#229 2012-09-24 07:41:36

caslie
Member
Registered: 2012-09-06
Posts: 9

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

So far i like systemd because its faster and much simpler except that I had to reconfigure the way my openbox shuts down because previously i issue "sudo halt" but now it does not turn off my laptop. Hence, i changed it to "systemctl shutdown" now and everything is working fine. I learned somewhere that systemd does not turn off the laptop when we use halt. I can now also activate hibernate and suspend adding "systemctl hibernate" and "systemctl suspend" in my openbox menu..

Furthermore, I find it much simpler to just use "systemctl enable/disable daemon.service" than editing rc.conf to enable daemons.  Also, when troubleshooting i find it simple to use "systemctl list-units" or "systemctl --failed". As a n00b, I think it's much easier and convenient. Well, I still have alot to learn but so far migrating is not a nuisance...

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#230 2012-09-24 14:46:03

mamamia88
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 483

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

So how long until the arch install media will do a pure systemd system by default?   I did a fresh install yesterday following the beginners guide since this is my only second time doing so.  One of the very first things i did after the install was moving over to a pure systemd system.

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#231 2012-09-24 18:18:02

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

mamamia88 wrote:

how long until the arch install media will do a pure systemd system by default?

We probably want to convert a few more rc scripts into systemd units first, then make sure there are no serious bugs outstanding and lastly we probably want to wait for some of us to have time to deal with all the fallout wink So could be "any day now", or not...

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#232 2012-09-25 02:05:24

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,817

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

tomegun wrote:
mamamia88 wrote:

how long until the arch install media will do a pure systemd system by default?

We probably want to convert a few more rc scripts into systemd units first, then make sure there are no serious bugs outstanding and lastly we probably want to wait for some of us to have time to deal with all the fallout wink So could be "any day now", or not...

12 December 2045, right?


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#233 2012-09-25 11:14:41

Mr.Elendig
#archlinux@freenode channel op
From: The intertubes
Registered: 2004-11-07
Posts: 3,721

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

soon%20(1).jpg


Evil #archlinux@freenode channel op and general support dude.
. files on github, Screenshots, Random pics and the rest

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#234 2012-09-26 05:58:12

Anonymo
Member
Registered: 2005-04-07
Posts: 418
Website

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

mamamia88 wrote:

So how long until the arch install media will do a pure systemd system by default?

http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 02815.html

Last edited by Anonymo (2012-09-26 05:58:42)

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#235 2012-09-26 15:09:11

Jristz
Member
From: America/Santiago
Registered: 2011-06-11
Posts: 918

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Arch deprecated sysvinit in near future???
I migrated to systemd-pure, but if sysvinit is deprecated I switch to the new systemd-arch


Well, I suppose that this is somekind of signature, no?

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#236 2012-09-26 15:44:17

thoho180192
Member
Registered: 2012-05-08
Posts: 57

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Systemd-arch?

There is no different between this so called systemd-arch and systemd-pure.
Arch have a package which includes common unit files, but that is it.

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#237 2012-09-26 15:56:50

Jristz
Member
From: America/Santiago
Registered: 2011-06-11
Posts: 918

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

thoho180192 wrote:

Systemd-arch?

There is no different between this so called systemd-arch and systemd-pure.
Arch have a package which includes common unit files, but that is it.

I try to make the diference from: Systemd with no arch packages like rc.conf or any of them and from and arch with them (orh any other arch-specific stuff)


Well, I suppose that this is somekind of signature, no?

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#238 2012-09-26 16:18:12

bwat47
Member
Registered: 2009-10-07
Posts: 637

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Jristz wrote:
thoho180192 wrote:

Systemd-arch?

There is no different between this so called systemd-arch and systemd-pure.
Arch have a package which includes common unit files, but that is it.

I try to make the diference from: Systemd with no arch packages like rc.conf or any of them and from and arch with them (orh any other arch-specific stuff)

"Pure" systemd is the right way to do it, if you've already migrated your system so its using all native systemd config files then that is the correct way.

The "arch specific" stuff will actually go away completely in the future. (systemd-arch-units now only includes a few units, as most packages in the repos that need units now include one. rc.conf compatability for systemd is a dirty hack that *will* go away eventually)

Last edited by bwat47 (2012-09-26 16:23:08)

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#239 2012-09-27 11:18:28

eNTi
Member
Registered: 2006-04-30
Posts: 107

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

the move has helped me exactly in no way... actually i now have to startx -- vt01 to get sound via pulseaudio (oh dear) and manually mount my nfs shares, because none of the supposed "solutions" are working. this change was pure crap and it has NO benefits whatsoever. on the contrary, arch took a step away from it's kiss roots. fuck you very much for nothing, really. fuck you very much. yes i'm mad.

Last edited by eNTi (2012-09-27 11:19:20)

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#240 2012-09-27 11:27:19

bwat47
Member
Registered: 2009-10-07
Posts: 637

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

eNTi wrote:

the move has helped me exactly in no way... actually i now have to startx -- vt01 to get sound via pulseaudio (oh dear) and manually mount my nfs shares, because none of the supposed "solutions" are working. this change was pure crap and it has NO benefits whatsoever. on the contrary, arch took a step away from it's kiss roots. fuck you very much for nothing, really. fuck you very much. yes i'm mad.

All you should have to do is put the shares in fstab with the x-systemd-automount and x-systemd-device-timeout= options...

And once systemd user-sessions mature we should have a much better alternative to startx and the like.

Last edited by bwat47 (2012-09-27 11:27:55)

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#241 2012-09-27 11:40:15

thoho180192
Member
Registered: 2012-05-08
Posts: 57

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I did not have to do anything "special" to get sound with pulseaudio working. I just start X with GDM.
Is it different if you use the starx command? I guess it has to be. Well, no help from me. I dont know anything about it, but it works fine here with GDM atleast.

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#242 2012-09-27 12:04:45

thestinger
Trusted User (TU)
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: 2010-01-23
Posts: 478

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

thoho180192 wrote:

I did not have to do anything "special" to get sound with pulseaudio working. I just start X with GDM.
Is it different if you use the starx command? I guess it has to be. Well, no help from me. I dont know anything about it, but it works fine here with GDM atleast.

Consolekit is now unnecessary and all that's needed to have a working session is to have X start on the same tty where the local login happened. With a display manager, that's simply how things were already done. With startx, you just have to do `startx -- vt$(fgconsole)' to get the same effect. I don't see any problem with it, it's not a big change.

Last edited by thestinger (2012-09-27 12:05:24)

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#243 2012-09-27 12:09:19

thestinger
Trusted User (TU)
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: 2010-01-23
Posts: 478

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

caslie wrote:

So far i like systemd because its faster and much simpler except that I had to reconfigure the way my openbox shuts down because previously i issue "sudo halt" but now it does not turn off my laptop. Hence, i changed it to "systemctl shutdown" now and everything is working fine. I learned somewhere that systemd does not turn off the laptop when we use halt. I can now also activate hibernate and suspend adding "systemctl hibernate" and "systemctl suspend" in my openbox menu..

Furthermore, I find it much simpler to just use "systemctl enable/disable daemon.service" than editing rc.conf to enable daemons.  Also, when troubleshooting i find it simple to use "systemctl list-units" or "systemctl --failed". As a n00b, I think it's much easier and convenient. Well, I still have alot to learn but so far migrating is not a nuisance...

This is because halt is supposed to halt the system - poweroff will both halt it and shut it off. As long as you have systemd-sysvcompat installed, the good old poweroff command should work because it's simply a symlink.

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#244 2012-09-27 12:17:35

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,837

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

eNTi wrote:

the move has helped me exactly in no way

Revert it then - initscripts are still supported.

eNTi wrote:

i now have to startx -- vt01 to get sound via pulseaudio (oh dear) and manually mount my nfs shares

thestinger has explained about --vt01, and if you want help with your nfs shares, ask for it properly. FYI, I mount my shares from fstab, exactly as I did before. bwat47's solution is also valid.

eNTi wrote:

this change was pure crap and it has NO benefits whatsoever. on the contrary, arch took a step away from it's kiss roots. fuck you very much for nothing, really. fuck you very much. yes i'm mad.

Nobody cares if you're mad, but the mods will care about your abusive tone. Probably won't matter though - I guess your next post will be about you changing to a "better" distro.

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#245 2012-09-27 12:30:40

bernarcher
Forum Fellow
From: Germany
Registered: 2009-02-17
Posts: 2,271

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

eNTi ranting does not help a thing. Please calm down and use your had. There is advice enough and some forum search before posting would have helped.

And read the forum etiquette, especially these chapters:

3 Ineffective Discussion (BIKESHED)
5 Respect Other Users
23 Do Not Flame
24 Respect The Staff


To know or not to know ...
... the questions remain forever.

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#246 2012-09-27 13:06:46

89c51
Member
Registered: 2012-06-05
Posts: 649

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Quick question:

Is there a reason that messages related to the journal encryption don't appear in dmesg??

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#247 2012-09-27 16:20:14

caslie
Member
Registered: 2012-09-06
Posts: 9

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

thestinger wrote:

This is because halt is supposed to halt the system - poweroff will both halt it and shut it off. As long as you have systemd-sysvcompat installed, the good old poweroff command should work because it's simply a symlink.

Yes I have it installed but prior to systemd I only use halt and it had the same effect as power off. Anyway, thanks.

Btw, is there any guide on how to use systemd for the user session? I watched the youtube video in this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM1-QTMoXMA and the lecturer said that xinit, session-managers of DE (xfce,gnome etc) are redundant because systemd can do it. He is even starting libreoffice and firefox as service but I can't replicate what he is doing even after searching the net because there are no guides. Well, he started the lecture already logged with systemd as user so it was not tackled in that video. The best I can do is use systemd-logind to handle the session but is this the same as using systemd for the user session? Im confused! Anyone? thanks!

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#248 2012-09-27 16:23:34

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

caslie wrote:

Btw, is there any guide on how to use systemd for the user session?

That is still under development/experimental.

You could have a look at: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=60349

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#249 2012-09-27 16:47:30

caslie
Member
Registered: 2012-09-06
Posts: 9

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

tomegun wrote:
caslie wrote:

Btw, is there any guide on how to use systemd for the user session?

That is still under development/experimental.

You could have a look at: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=60349

thanks!

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#250 2012-09-27 21:41:59

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I just updated systemd and noticed the changes to logind.conf. I had been using

HandleLidSwitch=tty-session

to prevent systemd from trying to handle lid close when I'm using KDM/KDE. Reading the updated man page, I can't see any equivalent functionality. Do I just have to use "ignore' and have systemd never handle it or has this functionality moved elsewhere? (I took a look in the other .conf files under /etc/systemd but didn't find anything which looked promising.)


How To Ask Questions The Smart Way | Help Vampires

Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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