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#1601 2014-06-23 15:59:34

chikinn
Member
Registered: 2014-04-09
Posts: 42

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Vizio CT14-A4, works great except for a minor battery issue.

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#1602 2014-07-01 11:07:01

Shahrukh36
Member
Registered: 2014-03-29
Posts: 3

Re: Laptops which run Arch

HP Pavilion dv6-6113tx.

The fingerprint reader does not work. Apart from that, everything works fine including Switchable Graphics.

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#1603 2014-07-06 01:03:58

triplc
Member
From: Hanoi, Vietnam
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 41

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Lenovo ideapad s410p model 20296.

Need to select the 2nd sound card as the default one: ~/.asoundrc.

defaults.pcm.card 1
defaults.ctl.card 1

Last edited by triplc (2014-07-07 10:38:15)

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#1604 2014-07-08 13:55:39

formoza
Member
From: Łowicz
Registered: 2014-06-25
Posts: 31
Website

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Lenovo B570e ONLY NETWORK INSTALLATION Arch Linux Netboot ( iPXE ISO)
+ Repair Backlight:
In /etc/default/grub
At line: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX add GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor"
wink

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#1605 2014-07-08 18:41:08

fennectech
Member
From: /home/fennectech/
Registered: 2014-06-04
Posts: 169

Re: Laptops which run Arch

WELL   after getting an arch CD rom downloaded i decided to try my hand at installing arch    so i asked a friend to help me install     after several hours of frusteration   arch booted        to initramfs  so i reboot into the cd and pacstrap the base again    most of the packages from base-devel were not installed    so once linux was installed    and the kernel was actually in place   i rebooted again!   finally   it booted    now im running arch on my emachines E525     and after several more hours of troubbleshooting   everything is just how i like it.


[FennecTECH@ArchOS ~]$ cat about_myself
Hello there my name is FennecTECH I am a novice arch user though I am here to learn  I live in central Minnesota where I hangout in the console and make my way into X11. Nice to meet you all! Enjoy my home directory feel free to poke around. There is a solution to every problem, so long as you do not break the laws of physics.
=^_^=
[FennecTECH@ArchOS ~]$

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#1606 2014-07-10 06:10:39

fanisg
Member
Registered: 2014-07-02
Posts: 42

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Aspire V5-573

My ACER ASPIRE V5-573-54204G50AII
Is almost perfect now with Arch. It took me about one week (could of course be a lot less if I knew what I was doing) but I am really happy now. So add it to Laptops that run Arch.

Some comments about the laptop: It is not 573G, but simple 573, so it has no nvidia but only intel HD 4400. The shop says freedos but it came with linpus linux lite. Can only boot from usb when secure boot is enabled but had to disable secure boot to boot arch from hard disk. To disable secure boot one has to create a password on uefi. Uefi has legacy mode (I think this is required for windows 7, but I am not going to install windows). Arch linux with KDE runs perfectly. I really love this cpu! Only think that does not work is hibernate (but sleep does work). I do not know if hibernation is fixable (probably it is) but at this point I do not care about that.

Last edited by fanisg (2014-07-10 06:11:09)

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#1607 2014-07-13 13:12:33

Carfax
Member
Registered: 2013-10-30
Posts: 30

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Sony Vaio S Series Red Edition
Battery Life is a bit disappointing but everything works perfectly out of box.

Recent problems with the kernel for Intel HD 4000 drivers, i think, but like i said, it's a recent development and only affects some kernel versions

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#1608 2014-07-14 22:57:10

herOldMan
Member
Registered: 2013-10-11
Posts: 154

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Alienware 17... not one problem, except the usual hassles with accomodating Optimus technology.

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#1609 2014-07-17 14:18:00

Koven
Member
Registered: 2006-06-13
Posts: 154

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Lenovo X230, 8GB, Intel Corei7, everything works fine, really fast. I love Lenovo and Arch working together.

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#1610 2014-07-27 16:17:15

CorrosiveEye
Member
Registered: 2014-07-25
Posts: 3

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Arch runs perfectly on my Asus X200C.

I use LXDE (although I've used GNOME 3 as well as MATE) with Awesome as my WM.

Great cheap laptop for taking to school.

I highly recommend this laptop.

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#1611 2014-08-03 22:20:53

Burning_aces
Member
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 120

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Anyone have a recommendation for something cheap? Going to be used as a travel laptop and also to run TAILS on.
I have a 17.3 inch laptop that I do most of my stuff with, hence just a small laptop, was thinking a 13.1 inch screen would be great.
Don't really want to spend over $1000, wouldn't say no to a touch screen, but it isnt a requirement. Also would be great if it the on-board wifi could be set into monitor mode, but that isn't a requirement.

Last edited by Burning_aces (2014-08-03 22:34:42)

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#1612 2014-08-03 22:29:15

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 6,611

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Dodge the Acer Aspire E11 for now. Backlight, touchpad (!) and half of the Fn keys don't work. Touchpad... hmm.

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#1613 2014-08-04 07:58:50

basica
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2012-10-31
Posts: 217

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Toshiba C50-B032 - Everything works fine, though you need to do a couple things to get up and running:

  • add atkbd to the modules section of the mkinitcpio file

  • boot with  intel_pstate=disable acpi_backlight=vendor

  • and customize the keyboard so the brightness keys work properly which can be done through xmodmap or similar.

EDIT: you can download my xmodmap file from here

Last edited by basica (2014-08-04 10:50:04)

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#1614 2014-08-04 10:33:35

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 6,611

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Awebb wrote:

Dodge the Acer Aspire E11 for now. Backlight, touchpad (!) and half of the Fn keys don't work. Touchpad... hmm.

Got most of it working. Most things are rather dirty hacks than actual fixes - an actual fix would be an upstream patch. Done so far:

  1. Backlight

    • acpi_osi=vendor: It will allow the backlight to be controlled by xbacklight, but not yet by pressing the backlight buttons on the keyboard

    • Backlight buttons are recognized as XF86Backlight{Up/Down}, so they can at least be mapped in X.

  2. Touchpad

    • I'm not entirely sure what happened, but the touchpad now just works. Initially, it would not work without acpi_osi=Linux and psmouse module loaded and it would crash all input on the machine upon pressing Fn+F7 (touchpad on key). Now it works without either option, the Fn key also works as it is supposed to.

    • dmesg still throws touchpad related errors.

    • To make the kernel identify the touchpad correctly, blacklist the i2c_hid module. Thank you, d98jh!

      dmesg | grep SYN1
      [    0.458549] pnp 00:09: Plug and Play ACPI device, IDs SYN1b7d PNP0c50 (active)
      [    5.748179] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.756307] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.757298] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.758250] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.759184] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.759593] input: SYN1B7D:01 06CB:2991 UNKNOWN as /devices/platform/80860F41:00/i2c-0/i2c-SYN1B7D:01/0018:06CB:2991.0001/input/input8
      [    5.759887] hid-multitouch 0018:06CB:2991.0001: input,hidraw0: <UNKNOWN> HID v1.00 Mouse [SYN1B7D:01 06CB:2991] on 

      But whatever happened, the device now also shows up in xinput:

      xinput
      ⎡ Virtual core pointer                          id=2    [master pointer  (3)]
      ⎜   ↳ Virtual core XTEST pointer                id=4    [slave  pointer  (2)]
      ⎜   ↳ SYN1B7D:01 06CB:2991 UNKNOWN              id=11   [slave  pointer  (2)]
      ⎣ Virtual core keyboard                         id=3    [master keyboard (2)]
          ↳ Virtual core XTEST keyboard               id=5    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Power Button                              id=6    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Video Bus                                 id=7    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Power Button                              id=8    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Sleep Button                              id=9    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ VGA Webcam                                id=10   [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ AT Translated Set 2 keyboard              id=12   [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Acer WMI hotkeys                          id=13   [slave  keyboard (3)]

      Weird enough, Ubuntu identifies the touchpad like this:

      ⎡ Virtual core pointer                          id=2    [master pointer  (3)]
      ⎜   ↳ Virtual core XTEST pointer                id=4    [slave  pointer  (2)]
      ⎜   ↳ SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad              id=12   [slave  pointer  (2)]
    • While the touchpad seems to have two "buttons" for left and right click, I suggest setting a dead zone for the lower part of the touchpad. The Ubuntu live CD allowed for hardware left and right click, the default Arch does not.

    • It seems to run with xf86-input-synaptics.

  3. Power Managent

    • Putting the device asleep by closing the lit works with acpi_osi=Linux.

    • The suspend button does not work, however it is being recognized as XF86Sleep and can be configured in X with the usual tricks. I suspect the same culprit behind the disfunct brightness keys to be behind that as well.

    • After falling asleep and waking up again, the touchpad will stop working. Restarting X does not help, you need to reboot (so far). Unloading and reloading the i2c_hid module after waking up fixes it. The i2c_hid module should be blacklisted to make the touchpad work anyway. No problems after resume now. Thank you, d98jh!

    • Neither acpi_osi=Linux nor acpi_osi=vendor fix the broken sleep and brightness buttons.

    • Hibernation will result in a problem with - you won't guess it -  the touchpad! Thanks to jasonwryan, I got that covered, too! Use i8042.nopnp as a kernel parameter.

That's it so far. Maybe I will open a thread. If not, come back to this post once in a while.

Last edited by Awebb (2014-08-06 14:31:03)

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#1615 2014-08-04 10:46:53

basica
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2012-10-31
Posts: 217

Re: Laptops which run Arch

By the looks of the timestamps of your posts, seems this kept you pretty busy today, eh? tongue

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#1616 2014-08-04 11:11:47

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 6,611

Re: Laptops which run Arch

basica wrote:

By the looks of the timestamps of your posts, seems this kept you pretty busy today, eh? tongue

It has! But there was a sleep cycle in between, so it's not that bad ;-)

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#1617 2014-08-04 23:22:33

Lord_Sunday123
Member
Registered: 2014-08-04
Posts: 37

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Personally I use a Toshiba P75 A7200 laptop. It also has windows 8.1 on its secondary drive, but for as much as i use it, Arch may as well be the only OS.

Really like arch too! I've been wanting a system that I could configure from the ground up for a while, and I've found it. been using it for a month or two, and no reasons to go back to anything else now!

(Btw, first post here! Yay me tongue)

Edit: Right, the stats. Forgot about that.

Output of inxi -AGCMSD

Poke wrote:

System:    Host: [hidden name here] Kernel: 3.15.8-1-ARCH x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: Cinnamon 2.2.14  Distro: Arch Linux
Machine:   System: TOSHIBA product: Satellite P75-A v: PSPLNU-00H004
           Mobo: Type2 - Board Vendor Name1 model: Type2 - Board Product Name1 v: Type2 - Board Version
           Bios: Insyde v: 1.40 date: 09/18/2013
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i7-4700MQ (-HT-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB
           Clock Speeds: 1: 2400 MHz 2: 2401 MHz 3: 2400 MHz 4: 2400 MHz 5: 2404 MHz 6: 2400 MHz 7: 2579 MHz
           8: 2395 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller
           Display Server: N/A drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 211x55
Audio:     Card-1 Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel
           Card-2 Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k3.15.8-1-ARCH
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1070.2GB (6.3% used) ID-1: /dev/sdb model: TOSHIBA_MQ01ABD0 size: 750.2GB
           ID-2: /dev/sda model: Hitachi_HTS54503 size: 320.1GB

It does only say that the processors only go to 2.4Ghz, but if needed it can go to 2.8 I believe. Intel set it up to overclock automagically if needed.

Last edited by Lord_Sunday123 (2014-08-04 23:30:08)

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#1618 2014-08-05 00:33:17

Lord_Sunday123
Member
Registered: 2014-08-04
Posts: 37

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Also sorry for the double post, but I noticed the post above my first having to do with acpi_osi. You might try the following arguments, since they always seem to get everything working correctly for me.

acpi_osi=Linux
acpi_backlight=vendor

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#1619 2014-08-05 10:31:54

d98jh
Member
Registered: 2014-08-05
Posts: 4

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Awebb wrote:
Awebb wrote:

Dodge the Acer Aspire E11 for now. Backlight, touchpad (!) and half of the Fn keys don't work. Touchpad... hmm.

Got most of it working. Done so far:

  1. Backlight

    • acpi_osi=vendor: It will allow the backlight to be controlled by xbacklight, but not yet by pressing the backlight buttons on the keyboard

    • Backlight buttons are recognized as XF86Backlight{Up/Down}, so they can at least be mapped in X.

  2. Touchpad

    • I'm not entirely sure what happened, but the touchpad now just works. Initially, it would not work without acpi_osi=Linux and psmouse module loaded and it would crash all input on the machine upon pressing Fn+F7 (touchpad on key). Now it works without either option, the Fn key also works as it is supposed to.

    • dmesg still throws touchpad related errors.

      dmesg | grep SYN1
      [    0.458549] pnp 00:09: Plug and Play ACPI device, IDs SYN1b7d PNP0c50 (active)
      [    5.748179] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.756307] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.757298] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.758250] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.759184] i2c_hid i2c-SYN1B7D:01: failed to retrieve report from device.
      [    5.759593] input: SYN1B7D:01 06CB:2991 UNKNOWN as /devices/platform/80860F41:00/i2c-0/i2c-SYN1B7D:01/0018:06CB:2991.0001/input/input8
      [    5.759887] hid-multitouch 0018:06CB:2991.0001: input,hidraw0: <UNKNOWN> HID v1.00 Mouse [SYN1B7D:01 06CB:2991] on 

      But whatever happened, the device now also shows up in xinput:

      xinput
      ⎡ Virtual core pointer                          id=2    [master pointer  (3)]
      ⎜   ↳ Virtual core XTEST pointer                id=4    [slave  pointer  (2)]
      ⎜   ↳ SYN1B7D:01 06CB:2991 UNKNOWN              id=11   [slave  pointer  (2)]
      ⎣ Virtual core keyboard                         id=3    [master keyboard (2)]
          ↳ Virtual core XTEST keyboard               id=5    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Power Button                              id=6    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Video Bus                                 id=7    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Power Button                              id=8    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Sleep Button                              id=9    [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ VGA Webcam                                id=10   [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ AT Translated Set 2 keyboard              id=12   [slave  keyboard (3)]
          ↳ Acer WMI hotkeys                          id=13   [slave  keyboard (3)]
    • It seems to run with xf86-input-synaptics.

    • While the touchpad seems to have two "buttons" for left and right click, I suggest setting a dead zone for the lower part of the touchpad. The Ubuntu live CD allowed for hardware left and right click, the default Arch does not.

  3. Sleep mode

    • Putting the device asleep by closing the lit works with acpi_osi=Linux.

    • The suspend button does not work, however it is being recognized as XF86Sleep and can be configured in X with the usual tricks. I suspect the same culprit behind the disfunct brightness keys to be behind that as well.

    • After falling asleep and waking up again, the touchpad will stop working. Restarting X does not help, you need to reboot (so far).

    • Neither acpi_osi=Linux nor acpi_osi=vendor fix the broken sleep and brightness buttons.

That's it so far. Maybe I will open a thread. If not, come back to this post once in a while.

I had the same problem on my Acer V11 with kernel 3.16. I solved it by unloading i2c_hid before suspending and reloading after wakeup.

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#1620 2014-08-05 13:03:38

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 6,611

Re: Laptops which run Arch

d98jh wrote:

I had the same problem on my Acer V11 with kernel 3.16. I solved it by unloading i2c_hid before suspending and reloading after wakeup.

Oh, thank you very much! That will do it until a permanent fix arrives. I can either add it to the pm scripts (as soon as I configured it), or run a script manually. I'll add your info to my post.

EDIT: Info about hibernation added to my post. I'd like to keep that post and update it until I have a complete overview and then turn it into a wiki entry.

EDIT:

Lord_Sunday123 wrote:

Also sorry for the double post, but I noticed the post above my first having to do with acpi_osi. You might try the following arguments, since they always seem to get everything working correctly for me.

acpi_osi=Linux
acpi_backlight=vendor

Indeed, backlight=vendor fixes the static backlight. osi=Linux, however, has no effect whatsoever.

EDIT:

Updated the post above. Blacklisting i2c_hid entirely does the trick for the touchpad.

Last edited by Awebb (2014-08-06 14:33:11)

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#1621 2014-08-14 20:23:19

sdrummer44
Member
Registered: 2014-08-14
Posts: 1

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Hello, I tried the driver from github on Kernel 3.14.1 and have had no success using two finger scrolling or pasting with both mouse buttons. Nothing seems to have changed since I installed the driver.

I have tried with and without a USB mouse plugged in, no effect.

Any ideas?

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#1622 2014-08-15 10:57:46

dfenster
Member
Registered: 2014-05-31
Posts: 3

Re: Laptops which run Arch

I just did a fresh install of Arch Linux and received the 3.16 kernel by default.
3.16 is supposed to have synaptics driver fixes, but there doesn't seem to be any change on my 2014 razer blade.

When I type synclient it says: Couldn't find synaptics properties. No synaptics driver loaded?

Is downgrading my kernel an option?
Any suggestionis?

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#1623 2014-08-15 14:05:56

riveale
Member
Registered: 2013-09-10
Posts: 49
Website

Re: Laptops which run Arch

dfenster: Ugh, that's what I was worried about.

Andrew said that 3.16 would have the new HID driver, but the thing that makes it work on the RB14 is a *patch* to the HID driver that Andrew wrote, which specifically adds conditions for the RB14. I guess it has never got submitted to the mainline (or maybe HID didn't make it into 3.16 after all). I know that actually creating a patch (formatting, etc.) is a pain in the butt, so that may be why...haha.

Anyway, my RB broke and I've been waiting a few weeks for it to get repaired. Apparently Keyboard and anti-moisture is absolute crap on the RB14 (2013 version at least), even one drop on the keyboard will fry it (mine fried while I was cleaning it with a slightly damp towel).

Does anyone know what's happening with bumblebee by the way? Mine stopped working on the some of the more recent kernels before my computer fried and I couldn't get it going again. I may just go with linux mint or something since I was having a lot of problems with arch at the end, mostly with "simple" things like file opening programs and automatic loading of external hard drives, haha.

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#1624 2014-08-20 02:40:08

DaMadOne
Member
Registered: 2014-07-30
Posts: 15

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Lenovo Yoga 2 13 (NOT PRO)  (this one Specifically -> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-yoga … &cp=1&lp=2

**WARNING** If you load linux (fedora 20 supposedly patched) the ideapad-latop kernel module WILL set the (non-existent) RF hardware switches to off making wifi and bt unsusable. It is my understanding that on the yoga 2 pro model simply rmmoding the module will make them work again. THIS IS NOT THE CASE HERE. Once linux has been ran on it and the module has not been patched, nothing you do will make it work again, except patching the module. Not removing the module, not rebooting with the module blacklisted, not booting windows (will be hard locked in win too).... nothing.

If you are researching this specific laptop and intend to put linux on it you will have likely already figured this out. I on the other hand went commando and just walked into BestBuy with a Xubuntu live usb  and started sticking it in laptops that fit what I was looking for, booting it up and checking out what worked "OOTB", what doesn't and what I figured I could fix with some tweaking. I was surprised at how many booted it and mostly worked right away, but I liked the concept, screen and feel of the Yoga. The only "major" thing that didn't work right OOTB was the wifi. it was recognized but hard disabled according to rfkill. Screen brightness, sound, usb, sdcard, the hardware keys, touchscreen,  touchpad and keyboard disabled when in "tablet mode".. all working. 15 day return policy... why not smile

Of course the first thing I did when I got home was boot the same xubuntu live usb to easily dd the whole ssd to a usb external hdd as it sits when you take it OOTB "just in case" as I was going to completely wipe the drive for linux. Of course my wifi wasn't working and I quickly figured out booting windows doesn't fix it either. I decided screw it, hopefully a newer kernel will have fixed it and booted up an Arch install usb, only to be met with the same problem. That is when I took to the webs and found the solution. It was an easy fix. Short version: I booted the xubuntu live stick, patched ideapad-laptop.c, and compiled it. Then removed and replaced the existing module, modprobe'd the new one and wifi came back up.  So if you have not already borked the wifi or fixed it after you borked it and intend install arch on it you need to boot the arch install and add 'modprobe.blacklist=ideapad_laptop' (NOT ideapad-latop) to the boot commands. If you are finding this post and NOT installing arch, just look up how to blacklist modules at boot time for your specific distro and blacklist ideapad_laptop (NOT ideapad-laptop). After that I was able to boot the arch usb, connect to my wifi and install "as per usual". I just went ahead and blacklisted the module in /etc/modprobe.d while I was still chroot'd in while installing. To my surprise I have not yet found anything that doesn't work without the module running.. so I have just left it blacklisted anyways. Ill update this post if I find something and remember to. It's a great little laptop and i'm quite fond of it after only a few days with it.

As a side note, Android-x86 4.4.2 boots and works. Wifi, touchscreen, battery level/charging indicators, BT, screen brightness slider(except auto), sound...  Though the whole UI was a bit "large" on such a "big" 1080p screen, Android is (mostly) made for high dpi screens afterall, though I assume the size of things could easily be tweaked to accomodate... I have not messed with it other than checking it out with the live usb for about 30 minutes... but things seemed to just work. Of course it is booting a linux kernel (ideapad-laptop not patched) and although the wifi worked in android (weird?), when I rebooted to arch the hardware rf switch bits had been set to off(0) again.. so just temporarily modprobe the patched module again.

EDIT* Oh yea.. I was kind enough to swing by BestBuy the next day with the xubuntu live usb and fix their display model that I had (then) unknowingly "broken" the day before. It's not like I thought the geek squad would have figured it out. wink

Last edited by DaMadOne (2014-08-20 03:05:43)

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#1625 2014-08-21 02:01:23

Painguy
Member
Registered: 2014-08-20
Posts: 15

Re: Laptops which run Arch

Arch runs on my Sager NP8278 (Clevo PM170S-A)

A few issues though. Fingerscanner is not supported, webcam doesn't work, and nouveau module crashes on boot so no nvidia working. I'm compiling a custom kernel in hopes that the issue is fixed. Kinda new to this though, There are so many different things I can add. I disabled a good chunk of stuff, but I'm not sure what I should keep lol. Half the stuff I haven't heard of lol.

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